So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Thats it.

In my honest opinion they are leaving every current contribitor behind, and this is, I believe, a step further towards closed source.

Leaving the ship, wiith that announcement I am afraid

http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/...2015_FINAL.PDF

EDIT:

On request. I try to clarify my standing.

The initial announcement was very worrying for me, yes. Since, more have evolved, both from Jolla, but also from the dear members of this community.

So, do I leave. Hell no. Never mind if the current 'beta' devices gets dumped by Jolla. This is still one good piece of hardware for me, and the open SailfishOS (yes, I know, not completely open) suits me, and I believe this community fairly well. It is surely not as handicapped by Aegis like my dear N9's.

How come my anger?

This is unfortunately how I am. I get worried, from sensire concern that I (we) will losse yet another battle.

I make mistakes, I should probably think more, before I write. Excuse me. But that is part of me, and by not voluntarely giving up I have won many battles.

As for the donations, what Have I gotten ?

I have so far invested in
books on Qt development.
Jolla phone (when it was expensive)
Jolla Tablet
A new (used) PC for development
Hardware to support hacking not only the Jolla, but also N9 (experimenting with serial communications for looking at early boot process)
Licenses and donations for exisitng applcations, some are free, but when it suits my needs I have donated (as an example, I donated 20€ to Navifirm developer)
Donations for other developers like coderus and cepiperez (I dont want to say how much, but a fair good amount)

When it is claimed that nothing was made. I really hope that not all feel that way. I have made at least a few good initiatives - and no - they are not 100% done.
To mention those that I favour:

Prey
Tor
a long list of hacking tools, like nmap, hping etc
I have also helped individuals with individual problems, as for example SSH, openssl, PHP, Apache server, Postgresql to mention a few.

Oh! And I managed to get a spare battery as replacement for one dead one.
And, a charger that will charge Jolla battery, when the phone refuses to boot enough to charge.

Next spending, is probably replacement of one device that has a broken sim-slot as a result of disassembling.

The donations, I must say, dont cover even the expenses laid out so far. Thats not what I was asking for, I was enabling me to continue my work, which I will, both for Jolla, but also for N9xx series.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

fresh fish to the CEO grinder...Ari Jaaksi. where are you?!

hurmula was visible. mark was vocal and sounded more professional... Tomi showed up in a pink suit never to be seen again...:D

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I don't see any problem.

I guess money well spent:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/j...startup#/story

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I don't know how you reached such conclusion. This is merely a reorganizing the company in a way that allows SW and HW parts to operate more independently and concentrate on their strong points instead of trying to do everything within single company. From agility point of view I think it's a good move as there seems to be a need to recruit more people and this way it should reduce the "administrative cost" in regard to increased workforce.

This should also mean that there will be Jolla branded devices in the future. Which is a good thing IMO.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I hope so. But this is what happened with Nokia isnt it?

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I am not so sure. But I hope you are right.
The 'licening' SailfishOS is what mainly sounds worrying.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

maybe jolla just want cheat the system by licencing it to them self. most componies doing this with brands. just a power play!

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I guess the next weeks will tell.
But this does worry me.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Idea of generating income from licensing deals has been there since from the beginning. On that part nothing has changed AFAIK.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

How do you see that proceed, without more closed blobls ?
As it might not be impossible, it is for sure troublesome.

Considering the current history, this is not promising for the future if you ask me. Sadly.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

So, how does Jolla see the future for SailfishOS being open source, is this a definate no to opening the remainig closed bits (UI)?

Concerns are also raised at https://together.jolla.com/question/...orate-refocus/

So, I am at least not alone in my worries.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Makes sense, I have no feeling of "open" when that (half) open software runs only on a specific Chinaphone hardware even if it has a few of its outer body lines designed in Finland.

I am hoping they will also look backward to older devices and sell the license as downloadable ROM's.

As a customer I'd be happy to pay for Jolla Sailfish about 100 credits if they make sure Sailfish runs equally good easy to get Blackberry / Nexus / Samsung devices with plenty of displays, batteries and other accessories available.
Saves the environment and gives a second life to obsolete Android junk.

Good software does not have to come free per se.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I want to see a sustainable Sailfish which can afford to invest the resources required to run and improve it. If they don't find a way to generate enough revenue to employ the guys who develop it, then it won't survive. I don't see how they can do that and give Sailfish away completely free.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

As I've already mentioned a few times, you can still license stuff software with a 100% codebase by licensing your trademarks and artwork. You can also sell support for your software, get money for new features, for certifications, hardware support, etc. Your code is still fully open, people can send you patches and you are not alienating your community. There are companies using this formula rather successfully.

Not saying that Jolla is willing and prepared to do it like this, just that it is possible to license & earn money with what is effectively 100% open source software.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Isn't that what large Linux distro's are living from?

Also some typical CRM package comes to mind www.vtiger.com

Now get some those EU millions, previously destined for Symbian , Jolla :)

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372010,00.asp

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

You don't even need the trademarks really. You can give people access to your source without giving them the legal right to use it in their own products, even if they build it themselves. Licensing is a separate thing. Plus there are other things of value that Jolla would be selling to device manufacturers, like support for their hardware and training for their developers. I really hope they can pull this off.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I guess the separation of the s/w and the h/w Jolla business will help as a 'safeguard' for Sailfish.
Jolla is clearly more interested in developing Sailfish than in throwing more and more resources into designing the hardware that would best feature SFOS, and so a clear line of separation on who works on which aspect (probably with the core of the old sailors on the s/w side of Jolla) will probably best help them going on with the planned business.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

It's pretty clear that this is Jolla quietly abandoning making their own hardware, and I can't say I am surprised. The Jolla phone and tablet releases have largely been a failure (10k tablet sales and 20-30k phone sales cannot sustain a company that is even as small as Jolla). I suspect that the original Jolla phone will be Jolla's first and final foray into making a phone, and that the Jolla tablet will be the last device that is made internally by the company. In fairness, I think abandoning hardware is the right thing for the company to do. The hardware has always been the issue for Sailfish, so instead of trying to fight a battle against Chinese manufacturers who are busy cutting their own throats, why not just let them make the device, and then certify a Sailfish Os for certain phones (like Cyanogenmod do).

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Its good for the OS from my limited insight because simply focusing on software development instead of diverting attention on to many topics should be good for that small company.

It could be bad for all Jolla Phone enthusiast/owners as i smell a conveniently legal way to dump all hardware aspects to "Bad Jolla" and let them go down with eventual customer claims regarding Jolla "prototype devices" shortcomings such as missing spare battery ...

On the other Hand, the tablet looks quite promising. maybe i am painting to much black.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Unfortunately, the Tablet is on the same ship. I hope the Captain is not the last person on that ship.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I think this was requested by some investors who does not want to invest and help Jolla make devices but only invest to get a better OS.
So (probably only) Jolla will fund the device company when there is a need/will/demand/possibility for a new device.

I am pretty sure that the device company has to survive, otherwise it send a weird signal for the OS but it is also probably a challenge. And so apparently they accept the challenge :)

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Let's assume that Jolla hardware division first partners with "Nokia" for the creating Sailfish hardware :)
We will finally have a "Nokia" branded device running Sailfish and it will be 2010 again :-P

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Or even worse.
Rumors are that M$ is letting Windows Phone go down the ditch. Perhaps its not Nokia, but M$ that will be the new branding device.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Either this or they make a more niche approach (read: more expensive device), which I'd happily buy if it's as well integrated as the first Jolla, and hopefully even better.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

To put it in their own words http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager ....

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Guys - Jolla as a device company is finished. They have clearly stated that they don't have the resources to focus on the OS and hardware. Just because the company is splitting, that doesn't magic up the resources that are needed for the company to work on both. As Mosen just said, the splitting is likely to be to make the Sailfish OS part (which seems to be sought after) more palatable to investors. The corollary to that of course is that the hardware part (which no one has an interest in) will go into wind-down mode as the money/demand simply does not exist to keep it going.

If we ever see another Sailfish device, it will be wholly manufactured/designed by a Chinese/Indian/Russian third-party.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Well, that would answer a whole lot of questions already asked in one punch.
You supported us, we dont care about what you do once your beta-device dies.
That, my mate, is a najor roadstopper (for me!)

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I don't see the problem?

The Jolla phone will get supported with updates for quite some time yet, the company will do repairs and guarantee warranties. At some point of course, the company will have to stop support and move focus to the new device. If we got Sailfish updates for 3 years, I would be more than happy with that.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I fully support this sentiment.

The reason for me to do so is that I don't understand what everybody is talking about saying Jolla can no longer fund hardware manufacturing... Haven't Jolla setup and finished a incredibly succesful crowdfunding campaign, reeling in more than $2,5M (which, supposedly, is 480% of the goal and according to Jolla themselves "the most funded Indiegogo campaign ever in Asia and Europe!")? So what seems to be the problem? Form a project team to pick hardware components, order/assemble them, done. Repeat process for future devices - I would surely support a Jolla 2 Phone crowdfunding campaign anyway.

Of course, please feel free to correct me if I'm missing something here, making my viewpoint too simplistic :)

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

You know, the funny thing is that this might actually improve support for the Jolla phone. Jolla has, of course, been focussed on software development from the start; that's what the company was set up for, and that's where the majority of their expertise lies.

A separate corporation focussed on hardware would have the ability to do things like, gasp, release an Android-based phone with a TOH-compatible backside; something that might make them a lot of money (at the cost of potentially annoying Jolla fans). The ability to sell Jolla-compatible hardware to telecoms that are skittish about novel operating systems would, I think, be a huge boost.

Jolla already has a long-term plan on how to make their software business profitable. If this new company can figure out how to make Jolla-compatible hardware profitable (whether or not it even contains Jolla software), this really will be a win-win decision.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I am not reading Finnish but seems that Tomi Pienimäki is going to Vincit, according to http://www.epressi.com/tiedotteet/ta...ippariksi.html

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Honestly, I don't think $2.5 million is quite enough these days to design and produce a truly successful mobile device, even if you don't spend any money at all on software development. The big companies are certainly spending much, much more than that on hardware R&D. (And yeah, just a single point of failure, such as we are seeing with the tablet display, can completely derail a project run on this small amount of money. You just can't afford to test lots of prototypes with lots of different combinations of parts from different suppliers...)

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

It's simplistic because Jolla is a real company that has to maintain offices, a corporate structure and pay 150 employees. To just keep the show on the road, I reckon Jolla would want to be making a gross profit of at very least €10M a year. As it stands, Jolla is selling maybe 10-20k devices a year. Assuming an equally unrealistic gross margin of €100 a device, you're looking at a gross profit of €2M tops. At very least, Jolla would want to start selling 5x what it has been. While I understand that Jolla are still basically a start-up, there are no signs that the hardware division is anywhere near to turning things around.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

If those are the facts I can of course fully respect that... but my immediate thought is: shouldn't they simply have set the goal higher with the campaign then? Also, regarding the maintenance costs as a company, isn't that why they are now setting up a licensing scheme for Sailfish?

My point is, I would love if it Jolla kept both the software and hardware development 'in-house'. In my opinion, it ensures quality control for devices to meet European standards, enables Jolla to really adjust software to hardware and vica versa, and paves the road for Jolla to grow into a strong brand :)

Re: Jolla tablet countup to delivery[Now With Poll]
 

http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/07/mob...er-of-business
http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/07/jolla-splits-in-two/
There's been several more write-ups in the last few hrs, just some of the main ones; the 1st article is the most detailed one I've seen.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I don't think selling tablets was the point of their campaign; it's more like, they suddenly had the opportunity to throw Jolla on some tablets (using financial help from Intel), and set up the campaign to drive more interest in Jolla.

I'm pretty sure that's backwards... Jolla was created as a company to license Sailfish; selling their own hardware was, I think, just a way to show HW manufacturers what a Jolla device would look like. Basically, this is the Google concept; Google wants to make money licensing Android (and through advertising); the point of their Nexus devices has never been to make money, but rather to show off the OS to potential licensees.

Well, that's the Apple concept, and it has certainly worked for them. Indeed, there are many advantages to keeping both software and hardware in-house. But that would kind of negate all the work Jolla has done to date in trying to court partnerships with other hardware manufacturers.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Another thing is that having a company dedicated to HW development may also be used to support partners in HW adaptation of their devices, not only designing Jolla branded devices. And there is this thing with devices based on Sailfish Secure. If executed correctly, it may allow some premium on pricing. Hopefully the idea of devices with HW keyboards is not completely forgotten...

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

I'm not sure if you believe they're running off with our money, or should be working on Sailfish for free, but these moves are most probably happening to give Sailfish a chance at surviving the next couple of years. I'm not sure what else you think they can do at this point.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

Correct.
I find it curious that Pienimäki doesn't go to replace the current Vincit CEO, but they are going to found a new company in addition to existing Vincit Oy, named Vincit Group Oy, which he will lead.
As I understand the first (and old) one will continue to be a software house, the new one will be more into IT services.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
 

No, thats not what I am saying. I am happy with beta-testing, no worries. But, the lack of support for existing devices that have been shown so far, is ignorant and disrespectfull.
But - I think more will agree once more batteries dies - as an example. Seems most are running at apx 80% of full capacity atm, and some have already died. One owner even had a nasty experience with how Jolla-care handled the situation - basically telling him to buy a new device.
Batteries is just one example. But the situation where a device, for any reason, is required to be shipped to Finland, with all costs thrown at the owner, is also not satisfactory.
I understand - I think - what they are doing right now, and its not all bad, BUT leaving those who helped, financially and developer wise the back is disrespectful and illoyal.