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wicket 2014-09-18 07:45

DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
The DebiaN900 project is a set of scripts to facilitate the installation of Debian GNU/Linux on the N900. This is still very much "work in progress". There are many things work and many things that don't but it's now at a stage where I am happy to release it publicly.

This is the OS that I want to run on my N900 and I hope it will eventually become good enough to replace Maemo. Maemo was the first OS that showed me that you don't need to set any limits with mobile computing.

What's wrong with Maemo then?
Well it's incredibly out of date and there just aren't enough people contributing that are going to significantly change that. CSSU is great and I love what you guys are doing but to me it always looks like an uphill struggle.

What about Mer and its derivatives?
IMHO they aren't doing it right. When I say that, what I really mean is they don't meet my requirements. Large parts are developed behind closed doors. Mer suffers from being business focused and therefore they choose to use outdated/unmaintained GPLv2 packages (possibly with security vulnerabilities) so that OS derivatives can be Tivoised. Mer has a bespoke, limited set of core packages. Want another package? You have to port it yourself. Why reinvent the wheel when you can build on top of an existing product that doesn't suffer from these problems? The answer to that question probably relates to the need to sell it to hardware vendors, thus the Tivoisation agenda.

I've read many arguments describing why it's a bad idea to run a desktop/server OS on mobile but I'm still not convinced that it's impossible to make Debian mobile friendly. I believe that it can be done with additional packages and patches, some of which I hope will be accepted upstream.

I hope that this project will eventually satisfy the needs of those of us who want to run a full, up-to-date desktop/server Linux on their mobile phones. I would like to see this project evolve to become a complete alternative to Maemo ready for everyday use. It should be easy to install providing the best out-of-the-box experience possible whilst also being fully customisable and power efficient. I encourage you all to try it out, make suggestions, fork it on GitHub, fix bugs, make improvements, etc.

Why Debian?
  • Debian is generally recognised as a solid, reliable and trusted operating system. It strives for software freedoms without forcing them on you.
  • Debian has a large community of over a thousand developers and package maintainers so we will never again have to worry about unmaintained or vulnerable packages.
  • Tens of thousands of packages available and there are already some mobile-oriented packages available such as the Calligra Active office suite.
  • Debian is very flexible. It's very hackable to the point where it's easy to customise and interchange components. Don't like the default init system? Just apt-get install another one.
  • It's the OS that Maemo was based on so it will be very familiar to most of you here.
  • Increase N900/Neo900 interest/appeal to the large community of Debian hackers (I plan to adapt this to the Neo900 when I finally get my hands on it).

Why don't you just build and distribute a disk image?
  • The script format allows me to distribute it on a public Git repository making it easy for others to contribute as well as all of the other advantages that come with using Git.
  • Scripts are easier to distribute as they are much smaller than disk images.
  • The scripts have been designed to make it easy to customise via conf files.
  • You can see exactly how the OS is put together so you don't need to worry that any malware may have been included.
  • You may even learn something by having it in script format.

How do I get started?
Clone the Git repository (or download the zip) and read the README.

Notes:

Wi-Fi connectivity:

The default configuration installs ConnMan for network connection management. The command-line utility that interfaces with ConnMan is connmanctl (a GTK GUI is also available). Running connmanctl with no parameters brings up a sub-shell.

Here's a quick summary of the commands that are needed to get a protected Wi-Fi connection up and running:

# connmanctl
connmanctl> agent on
connmanctl> enable wifi
connmanctl> scan wifi
connmanctl> services
connmanctl> connect wifi_<string>

The connmanctl shell interface supports tab completion (Shift + Space-bar with the installed keymap) which is handy when entering the connection string.

See the ConnMan documentation for further information.

For alternative methods of setting up WiFi, see here.

Keyboard configuration:

There are two key maps, one for the console and one for X11. These are based on the Arch Linux N900 key maps.
The console key map is described here.
The X11 key map is described in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51

Known issues:

sulu 2014-09-18 08:32

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Any progress with the modem compared to the elektranox status [1]?
What's the most useful (usability, stability...) UI Debian offers for the N900 in your opinion?


[1] http://elektranox.org/n900/status/index.html

marcphemt 2014-09-18 09:42

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Is a interesting project :cool: ...will you provide screenshots of debian on N900?? What DE is running in debian for n900?
Thanks!

freemangordon 2014-09-18 15:00

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
wicket: will those scripts install hardfp packages? any chance for softfp if that is the case?

Android_808 2014-09-18 16:28

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
There is a entry in config file specifying armhf. I imagine you just replace that with armel.

wicket 2014-09-18 17:38

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1439587)
Any progress with the modem compared to the elektranox status [1]?
What's the most useful (usability, stability...) UI Debian offers for the N900 in your opinion?


[1] http://elektranox.org/n900/status/index.html

That page of Sebastian's hasn't been updated for some time. For the current status, please check the N900 kernel status page. The n900-modem driver was merged in 3.16. If I'm honest, I haven't actually tested the modem yet.

I've only really tried Enlightenment which has an option to optimise for mobile devices. It works quite well but has its quirks such as that it ignores all X11 keyboard settings that have been set up in /etc/default/keyboard, /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /etc/X11/xorg.conf/* so it can only really be configured via the command line or with a not so elegant hack. It's easy enough to install (apt-get install e17) but unfortunately the package maintainers are a bit behind. E19 has recently been released.

I would like to build Plasma Active at some stage to see how that runs. There's also a package for Plasma Netbook available in Debian. Aapo is working on porting Hildon to GTK3 to run under Debian. Some prefer more basic window managers. There are a few options so I haven't yet decided on which UI would be best to install by default therefore my scripts don't install one yet. X11 is installed and configured for the keyboard, touch screen and I'll also configure it with the SGX drivers when I get that working. I welcome contributions of separate scripts to configure specific UIs.

wicket 2014-09-18 17:42

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by freemangordon (Post 1439615)
wicket: will those scripts install hardfp packages? any chance for softfp if that is the case?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Android_808 (Post 1439622)
There is a entry in config file specifying armhf. I imagine you just replace that with armel.

Exactly. Just set the ARCH variable to armel in debian.conf. I've tested both.

I'm curious to know why you'd rather use softfp over hardfp...

freemangordon 2014-09-18 17:46

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439631)
Exactly. Just set the ARCH variable to armel in debian.conf. I've tested both.

I'm curious to know why you'd rather use softfp over hardfp...

1. SGX
2. Nokia PA plugins
3. there is a whole bunch of applications already available for Maemo, but you can't run them on hardfp OS

wicket 2014-09-18 19:01

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
I've updated the Issue tracker with some of the main issues right now.

I'd like to draw your attention in particular to this issue before you go off and install ALSA or similar and blow up your speakers.

freemangordon 2014-09-18 19:17

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
yeah, exactly my point about Nokia PA modules

sulu 2014-09-19 11:57

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439630)
That page of Sebastian's hasn't been updated for some time. For the current status, please check the N900 kernel status page. The n900-modem driver was merged in 3.16. If I'm honest, I haven't actually tested the modem yet.

Thanks for the link! I've seen that before but it was too long ago to remember.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439630)
I've only really tried Enlightenment which has an option to optimise for mobile devices.

I've tried e17 as well with the mobile UI (in Easy Debian, and an accordingly sized VBox window on my PC) and to me it seems to be the only UI Debian offers that might be suitable for a 3.5" touchscreen without using a stylus.
I was able to make some progress with LXDE but I can only either create a UI that works without a stylus or that leaves enough room for application windows, not both at the same time. Xfce was even worse.

btw. do you know the "bodhi-close" gadget created by Jeff Hoogland [1]? It essentially creates an [X] icon in the shelf (upper panel). I've found the source code here [2], but didn't compile it myself. In the VM I was able to use the Bodhi package in Debian.
In combination with a taskbar-like gadget like iTask [3] (not an official part of E17) the "illume-softkey" module (lower panel) becomes totally dispensable, which in turn frees up some precious pixels for applications.
Here's a screenshot of Bodhi running in a 800x480px VM with an E17 setup that I think might work well on the N900 screen [4]. It turned out whenever I tried to put something together in Debian that might work it ended up looking like Bodhi. So @Jeff, in case you read this: Thank you!

What's your preferred web browser in Debian on the N900? I believe iceweasel is too heavy and it seems some potential alternatives (midori, xxxterm) aren't actually maintained.
So far I'm leaning towards qupzilla and netsurf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439638)
I'd like to draw your attention in particular to this issue before you go off and install ALSA or similar and blow up your speakers.

Thanks for the reminder!
As a very simple "solution", wouldn't it be sufficient to mute ALSA's lower-frequency equalizer controls? (of course that means crippling the sound even via the audio jack)
What's the critical frequency? I think I remember having read something about 125Hz, but that might be totally wrong.


[1] http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=27934
[2] http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp...nt.devel/34506
[3] http://code.google.com/p/itask-module/
[4] https://wiki.debianforum.de/Datei:E17-bodhi.png

Estel 2014-09-19 12:29

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1439699)
suitable for a 3.5" touchscreen without using a stylus.
I was able to make some progress with LXDE but I can only either create a UI that works without a stylus or that leaves enough room for application windows, not both at the same time.

By using auto-hiding panels of quite big size (with adequately sized icons), you can create UI that works finger-friendly, and still leaves 799x479 pixels* for applications. If you configure it correctly**, panels will always show up on top of whatever is open, but *only* when you actually press a little outside of screen, on the edge where they should appear (it feels almost like having additional capacitive buttons, but of course it's side effect of our resistive screen sensitivity - pressing just outside screen border is recognized as swinging mouse outside screen, which brings up panel). You can have 4 separate panels with different content (running programs, shortcuts, resource monitors, etc).

For Easy Debian, I found such setup most lightweight and convenient, at the same time. I see no reason why it would work differently in native Debian. BTW, it's worth to configure Openbox to start some programs without "decorations" - especially the ones that have own way of closing, minimizing, etc. Saves another bit of screen estate.

/Estel

*Works properly only with lxpanel from Jessie - earlier, some bug allowed certain applications to ignore "always on top" settings of auto-hiding panel, and, for example, Chromium was always on top.

**The -1 pixel comes from the fact, that you need to leave hidden panel size of 1 pixel (before Jessie, min was 2 pixels, now it is 0), or Panel won't come up after restart. It's a bug - it should still appear, even when 0-sized when hidden. If it's ever get fixed, we can use full 800x480 pixels for programs.

// Edit

How about power-saving? I would expect that without Maemo's hack, it will use much more power (current) when totally idle and screen is disabled,as compared to Maemo/Hildon?

Boemien 2014-09-19 21:41

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Hé hé hé :D something is cooking around! It smells goooooood :D!!!

wicket 2014-09-20 03:28

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1439699)
I've tried e17 as well with the mobile UI (in Easy Debian, and an accordingly sized VBox window on my PC) and to me it seems to be the only UI Debian offers that might be suitable for a 3.5" touchscreen without using a stylus.
I was able to make some progress with LXDE but I can only either create a UI that works without a stylus or that leaves enough room for application windows, not both at the same time. Xfce was even worse.

btw. do you know the "bodhi-close" gadget created by Jeff Hoogland [1]? It essentially creates an [X] icon in the shelf (upper panel). I've found the source code here [2], but didn't compile it myself. In the VM I was able to use the Bodhi package in Debian.
In combination with a taskbar-like gadget like iTask [3] (not an official part of E17) the "illume-softkey" module (lower panel) becomes totally dispensable, which in turn frees up some precious pixels for applications.
Here's a screenshot of Bodhi running in a 800x480px VM with an E17 setup that I think might work well on the N900 screen [4]. It turned out whenever I tried to put something together in Debian that might work it ended up looking like Bodhi. So @Jeff, in case you read this: Thank you!

What's your preferred web browser in Debian on the N900? I believe iceweasel is too heavy and it seems some potential alternatives (midori, xxxterm) aren't actually maintained.
So far I'm leaning towards qupzilla and netsurf.

You might be interested to know (if you don't already know it) that there is an EFL UI for ConnMan called EConnMan but you would need to build it as hasn't yet been packaged for Debian.

I have tried out few browsers. I installed Iceweasel and as you might expect it ate a lot of the memory but other than that there were no real issues and I was able to install some of my favourite add-ons. It's actually quite responsive for single tab/window browsing if you don't have a lot of other stuff running. It runs much better than it does in Maemo under Easy Debian (from what I remember).

Your right about Midori being a poor choice. It was recently removed from the repositories. It's back in there at the moment but it's scheduled to be auto removed again as there's a serious bug that needs fixing and no one's maintaining it. I ran into another bug when I tried it in that there was nowhere to enter a URL!

If you want a really lightweight browser then I recommend links2. It does display graphics, just don't expect anything fancy like JavaScript.

This might also be a good option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1439699)
Thanks for the reminder!
As a very simple "solution", wouldn't it be sufficient to mute ALSA's lower-frequency equalizer controls? (of course that means crippling the sound even via the audio jack)
What's the critical frequency? I think I remember having read something about 125Hz, but that might be totally wrong.

I was thinking of something similar. It should be possible to detect whether there's something plugged into the audio jack and automatically switch to the appropriate profile. I'm not actually sure what the critical frequency is. I would very much appreciate it if someone can confirm it.

There are also the Nokia PA plugins as suggested by freemangordon which would work in the short term. I say short term as I would prefer universal solution that also works with hardfp and is open source.

Hopefully the Neo900 will have protection at hardware level.

wicket 2014-09-20 03:33

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1439703)
How about power-saving? I would expect that without Maemo's hack, it will use much more power (current) when totally idle and screen is disabled,as compared to Maemo/Hildon?

Right. As I said, it isn't ready for everyday use but power saving is obviously something I'd like to address.

In the meantime, you can run pm-suspend to completely suspend the device, just don't do it with the 3.16-rc1 kernel as the device will hang.

wicket 2014-09-20 03:53

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
A word of warning to E17 users using 3.16-rc1. The E17 power saving that kicks in when idle for a few minutes also triggers the hang (it looks like it's doing a full suspend).

You could try 3.14-rc3 instead. My biggest problem with that kernel is I get frequent network errors causing SSH connections to drop and package downloads to fail.

Android_808 2014-09-20 07:12

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
with regards to the pulseaudio issue, wouldn't the meego version have the required protection we could use for armhf?

edit: it appears they might, settings refer to it https://github.com/nemomobile/pulsea...lgs/xprot/set2

wicket 2014-09-20 18:57

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Android_808 (Post 1439788)
with regards to the pulseaudio issue, wouldn't the meego version have the required protection we could use for armhf?

edit: it appears they might, settings refer to it https://github.com/nemomobile/pulsea...lgs/xprot/set2

Bare in mind that the frequency threshold on the N950/N9 might not be identical to that of the N900.

freemangordon 2014-09-20 19:33

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439783)
...
You could try 3.14-rc3 instead. My biggest problem with that kernel is I get frequent network errors causing SSH connections to drop and package downloads to fail.

I guess you're hitting https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/ke...f6600f77526078

misiak 2014-09-20 19:52

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439866)
Bare in mind that the frequency threshold on the N950/N9 might not be identical to that of the N900.

I think he was referring to the version of meego adapted for N900.

wicket 2014-09-20 20:21

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by misiak (Post 1439874)
I think he was referring to the version of meego adapted for N900.

Possibly, but the link provided was to the source of a package that's specific to the N950 and N9. There's a separate package for the N900.

Android_808 2014-09-20 21:46

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
whoops. xprot settings appear missing in n900 repo, however they are present in var/lib/pulse-nokia/ihf.parametres on our device for left/right. they are not in all of our settings, haven't checked them all.

could be usable IF xprot module is compatible.

sulu 2014-09-22 08:54

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1439703)
By using auto-hiding panels of quite big size (with adequately sized icons), you can create UI that works finger-friendly, and still leaves 799x479 pixels* for applications.

I know. I've tried that in ED some time ago but for some reason I don't like it.
There is some info that I always want to see (time, battery status) . And my screen edges all behave differently, i.e. the pressure point where lxpanel shows up is not the same for all four edges which irritates me.
I also tried to create a centered static panel on top where windows don't dock. The idea was to have this panel cover most of the window decoration but grant access to the window control buttons. But this setup was kind of buggy (not always on top, windows sometimes docked, some weird lxmenu behavior).



Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439780)
You might be interested to know (if you don't already know it) that there is an EFL UI for ConnMan called EConnMan but you would need to build it as hasn't yet been packaged for Debian.

Thanks! I've heard of ConnMan but up to now I didn't even know what it was. It sure sounds interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439780)
I have tried out few browsers. I installed Iceweasel and as you might expect it ate a lot of the memory but other than that there were no real issues and I was able to install some of my favourite add-ons. It's actually quite responsive for single tab/window browsing if you don't have a lot of other stuff running. It runs much better than it does in Maemo under Easy Debian (from what I remember).

I have Iceweasel installed on my Cubieboard2, which - in terms of performance - is probably the closest to a N900 I have, but it's still magnitudes faster. But I rarely use it since it's already pretty slow.
Also I'm used to having multiple tabs opened (4-10).

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439780)
I ran into another bug when I tried it in that there was nowhere to enter a URL!

I think I remember that one has to do with the limited screen width of the N900. I believe Midori is designed for at least 1024 Pixels. I think you can bring back the urlbar by freeing up some space in the panel, most obviously by removing the search engine bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439780)
If you want a really lightweight browser then I recommend links2. It does display graphics, just don't expect anything fancy like JavaScript.

My problem is that I need Javascript for some sites. Otherwise I'd use links2, dillo, hv3, surf - you name it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439780)
This might also be a good option.

Afair Epiphany's performance was similar to Firefox 2, but then again I haven't used it since FF2 was up to date.

On another note, I really like the UI of Ubuntu's webbrowser-app [1]. The two problems I see are the modified libqt5 dependencies that may make it hard to port it to Debian and the fact that you need multi-touch for some functionality (e.g. resizing contents).

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439780)
I was thinking of something similar. It should be possible to detect whether there's something plugged into the audio jack and automatically switch to the appropriate profile. I'm not actually sure what the critical frequency is. I would very much appreciate it if someone can confirm it.

I believe joergrw has made a statement about that (or included a link to such a statement) in the huge Neo900 thread, but I don't remember where.


Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1439780)
Hopefully the Neo900 will have protection at hardware level.

+1


[1] http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/webbrowser-app

Estel 2014-09-23 10:18

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1440002)
I also tried to create a centered static panel on top where windows don't dock. The idea was to have this panel cover most of the window decoration but grant access to the window control buttons. But this setup was kind of buggy (not always on top, windows sometimes docked, some weird lxmenu behavior).

I had such problems with Wheezy on desktop (and I still have them in Easy Debian, for obvious reasons), but with jessie (on desktop) they're gone.

/Estel

sulu 2014-09-26 08:06

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Jessie is scheduled to freeze on 5th of november, so the weekend after that I'll try to upgrade ED and then I'll try again.

sulu 2014-09-28 22:21

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
1 Attachment(s)
I played a bit with a Jessie VM and E17/LXDE.

In E17 I thought autohiding the shelf of the mobile theme might be useful to gain some additional space.
But this shelf can't be hidden since it's no regular shelf. Instead it's a special module called "illume-home". So I disabled the illume-home module alltogether and created a regular shelf that autohides in its place.
Surely no revolutionary change, but maybe a nice side note.

btw: Does someone know how to configure which icons should be shown on the E17 desktop (other than wreaking havoc in /usr/share/applications)?

As for LXDE I tried Estel's suggestions and found my first result quite pleasing (for someone who often earned facepalms from his art teacher). - screenshot attached
The top panel is autohiding, so is the (currently invisible) bottom panel that contains a task bar.
The ugly [X] in the upper right corner is a starter wmctrl to close the currently active window (yes, heavily "inspired" by bodhi-close), making the window's title bar pretty much useless.
The browser is qupzilla with the window bar disabled while the url and menu bars are temporarilly hidden underneath the lxpanel.

@Estel (or someone else who knows):
Is there a way in openbox to undecorate (disable title bar) all windows by default and permanently?

This is the wmctrl starter (I simply copied and adapted the leafpad file, which explains the quite pointless "Categories" line):
Code:

# cat /usr/share/applications/wmctrl_close.desktop
[Desktop Entry]
Keywords=editor
Name=wmctrl_close
Exec=wmctrl -c :ACTIVE:
Icon=editdelete
Terminal=false
Type=Application
MimeType=text/plain
Categories=GTK;Utility;TextEditor;

At the moment I'm quite torn between E17 and LXDE. E17 sure has the looks and I like it how you can adjust the delay before a shelf autohides. On the other hand LXDE has the stability (E17's file manager always crashes when I try to open a file) and seems to be a little bit faster.

freemangordon 2014-09-29 16:44

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Not sure this is the correct thread, but anyway:

If someone takes the job of helping me a bit (not sure what kind of help I'll need :), but I know nothing about PA) with the stuff on https://gitorious.org/maemo-multimed...f262a7ebe413c: I will (try to) RE the missing parts (xprot, xprot-ambient-temp and eq)

Estel 2014-09-29 19:07

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1440927)
@Estel (or someone else who knows):
Is there a way in openbox to undecorate (disable title bar) all windows by default and permanently?

Sure, you edit the ~/.config/openbox/lxde-rc.xml file, and in the <applications> section, you add something like this:

Code:

    <application name="*" class="*">
      <decor>no</decor>
      <position>
        <x>0</x>
        <y>0</y>
      </position>
    </application>

Notice, that you may also modify other things, like position, window size... The <applications> section have a manual equivalent at the beginning of the section, commented out.

Going back to your question, the relevant part of said comment-manual:

Code:

  # the name or the class can be set, or both. this is used to match
  # windows when they appear. role can optionally be set as well, to
  # further restrict your matches.

  # the name, class, and role use simple wildcard matching such as those
  # used by a shell. you can use * to match any characters and ? to match
  # any single character.

  # when multiple rules match a window, they will all be applied, in the
  # order that they appear in this list

Openbox is a hell of a configurable and flexible window manager. In practice, you can make it look and do almost everything you want - I don't think any other WM comes close. sometimes, it require some digging, though. But, if you like, you can even mimic the other bloatware windows managers with it (with the same resources wastage ;) )

I would say "go for LXDE", for the performance and flexibility reasons. Not to mention that many things from other good desktop environments (MATE) works out of the box with LXDE components (or require just editing out the godamned line "OnlyShownIn" from their .desktop files).

/Estel

sulu 2014-09-29 21:09

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1441040)
Sure, you edit the ~/.config/openbox/lxde-rc.xml file, and in the <applications> section, you add something like this:

Perfect!
This gives me what I was looking for:
Code:

<application name="*" class="*">
      <decor>no</decor>
      <maximize>yes</maximize>
</application>


Android_808 2014-09-29 22:47

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by freemangordon (Post 1441010)
Not sure this is the correct thread, but anyway:

If someone takes the job of helping me a bit (not sure what kind of help I'll need :), but I know nothing about PA) with the stuff on https://gitorious.org/maemo-multimed...f262a7ebe413c: I will (try to) RE the missing parts (xprot, xprot-ambient-temp and eq)

funny enough, i spent some of yesterday looking into it. as a warning, 1st time attempting RE, so i may be way off here.

i was expecting to find xprot settings string in strings section of disassembly for use with string comparison to identify sections within config file. so far no luck in -common or -music.

freemangordon 2014-09-29 23:30

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Android_808 (Post 1441062)
funny enough, i spent some of yesterday looking into it. as a warning, 1st time attempting RE, so i may be way off here.

i was expecting to find xprot settings string in strings section of disassembly for use with string comparison to identify sections within config file. so far no luck in -common or -music.

Code:

.rodata:000485A8 0000001B C x-maemo.xprot.displacement   
.rodata:00048388 0000001E C x-maemo.xprot.parameters.left
.rodata:000483A8 0000001F C x-maemo.xprot.parameters.right
.rodata:000485C4 0000001A C x-maemo.xprot.temperature

:p

EDIT: sorry, it is in voice

Niko2040 2014-10-07 23:13

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
I compiled and packaged Enlightement DR19 for armhf debian unstable. Compiled with systemd support.
From E19 version 0.19.0 alpha 1 mobile profile are deprecated. But default profile is usable.
Trick to add Nokia N900 keyboard support in Enlightenment. After first run (after initial configs created), run in terminal (enlightenment session need to be stopped!):
Code:

eet -d .e/e/config/standart/e.cfg config e.txt
Now, edit e.txt
Find:
Code:

        group "E_Config_XKB_Layout" struct {
            value "name" string: "us";
            value "model" string: "default";
            value "variant" string: "basic";
        }

Replace with:
Code:

        group "E_Config_XKB_Layout" struct {
            value "name" string: "us";
            value "model" string: "nokiarx51";
            value "variant" string: "basic";
        }

After this, run in terminal:
Code:

eet -e .e/e/config/standart/e.cfg config e.txt 1
All E19 packages:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ql5b60dyd...w53vFds4a?dl=0

sulu 2014-10-20 08:39

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
RE: critical speaker frequency:
According to this [1] 480Hz is either the critical frequency or well on the safe side. (I'm no audio expert)
So muting everything below that frequency in alsamixer should make audio safe.
Who want's to play the guinea pig? ;)

On another note, I finally got around to install Debian on real hardware, installed LXDE and it works mostly fine.

I found some small issues:

1. After a reboot when I select Maemo (CSSU thumb kernel sitting on eMMC) the first attempt to boot will always fail at the 5 dots of dread, the second one will always be fine. No idea if it's a Debian, a u-boot or a CSSU thumb thing.
2. In LXDE tapping the screen will always trigger the right mouse button which makes it hard to control the desktop. I guess that's manageable via evdev. Reading man evdev also revealed that tap-hold for right click can be configured via evdev and therefore desktop-independent.
3. I noticed that the CLI and GUI keymaps differ (e.g. no Tab via Shift+Space in GUI). Where is the CLI keymap defined for comparison?
4. LXDE battery monitor may not work. I say "may" because I only tried with power cable connected.

Other than that I'm quite impressed.
btw. is there an easy way to overclock the CPU within Debian, probably the same way KP does it in Maemo?
I didn't try phone functions so far, but I'll try soon. Unfortunately the fso-deviced package isn't installable on i386/amd64 atm. Not sure if it's any better on armhf. I guess it's due to changes in connection with systemd introduction (but right now it doesn't work with sysvinit either).


[1] http://213.128.137.28/showthread.php?p=1160889

sulu 2014-10-20 22:37

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
I played a bit:
Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
2. In LXDE tapping the screen will always trigger the right mouse button which makes it hard to control the desktop. I guess that's manageable via evdev. Reading man evdev also revealed that tap-hold for right click can be configured via evdev and therefore desktop-independent.

How do I configure evdev in DebiaN900?
I need to figure out which is the correct device. Usualy it's done like this (output from my PC):
Code:

$ find /dev/input/by-id/ -name "*event-mouse"
/dev/input/by-id/usb-Logitech_USB_Mouse-event-mouse

But on the N900 the whole by-id directory isn't there:
Code:

$ ls /dev/input/
by-path  event0  event1  event2  event3  mice  mouse0

In short: I have no idea how to change the mouse button mapping now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
4. LXDE battery monitor may not work. I say "may" because I only tried with power cable connected.

No, it doesn't work. Afair the reason is that it only looks in /sys/class/power_supply/BAT* but it should look in /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0
I had a look at the code long ago and I believe this is easily changed. But on the other hand I could have sworn there is a way to configure this without recompilation, which doesn't seem to be true - so no idea how accurate my memory is here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
I didn't try phone functions so far, but I'll try soon. Unfortunately the fso-deviced package isn't installable on i386/amd64 atm. Not sure if it's any better on armhf.

It doesn't install on armhf either, with the same error. I filed a bug report:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...cgi?bug=766114

wicket 2014-10-21 03:18

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Niko2040 (Post 1442276)
I compiled and packaged Enlightement DR19 for armhf debian unstable. Compiled with systemd support.
From E19 version 0.19.0 alpha 1 mobile profile are deprecated. But default profile is usable.
Trick to add Nokia N900 keyboard support in Enlightenment. After first run (after initial configs created), run in terminal (enlightenment session need to be stopped!):
Code:

eet -d .e/e/config/standart/e.cfg config e.txt
Now, edit e.txt
Find:
Code:

        group "E_Config_XKB_Layout" struct {
            value "name" string: "us";
            value "model" string: "default";
            value "variant" string: "basic";
        }

Replace with:
Code:

        group "E_Config_XKB_Layout" struct {
            value "name" string: "us";
            value "model" string: "nokiarx51";
            value "variant" string: "basic";
        }

After this, run in terminal:
Code:

eet -e .e/e/config/standart/e.cfg config e.txt 1
All E19 packages:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ql5b60dyd...w53vFds4a?dl=0

Thanks! At some stage I'd like to set up a APT repository for additional packages such as these. If anyone can help with hosting please let me know.

wicket 2014-10-21 04:33

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
RE: critical speaker frequency:
According to this [1] 480Hz is either the critical frequency or well on the safe side. (I'm no audio expert)
So muting everything below that frequency in alsamixer should make audio safe.
Who want's to play the guinea pig? ;)

You could test it first with headphones plugged in (assuming the audio will automatically be redirected to the headphone jack, I've not tested this myself but I can confirm that the kernel does detect when headphones have been plugged in).

I'd personally prefer a solution that works at driver level if possible. That way it would cover all possible audio configurations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
On another note, I finally got around to install Debian on real hardware, installed LXDE and it works mostly fine.

I found some small issues:

1. After a reboot when I select Maemo (CSSU thumb kernel sitting on eMMC) the first attempt to boot will always fail at the 5 dots of dread, the second one will always be fine. No idea if it's a Debian, a u-boot or a CSSU thumb thing.

I experience this sometimes too. I think lifeguard timer is being triggered and is resetting the device. Try activating R&D mode to see if that makes a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
2. In LXDE tapping the screen will always trigger the right mouse button which makes it hard to control the desktop. I guess that's manageable via evdev. Reading man evdev also revealed that tap-hold for right click can be configured via evdev and therefore desktop-independent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443601)
I played a bit:
How do I configure evdev in DebiaN900?
I need to figure out which is the correct device. Usualy it's done like this (output from my PC):
Code:

$ find /dev/input/by-id/ -name "*event-mouse"
/dev/input/by-id/usb-Logitech_USB_Mouse-event-mouse

But on the N900 the whole by-id directory isn't there:
Code:

$ ls /dev/input/
by-path  event0  event1  event2  event3  mice  mouse0

In short: I have no idea how to change the mouse button mapping now.

When did you grab the scripts? On 8th October I merged this pull request from Niko2040. Perhaps the EmulateThirdButtonTimeout value needs tweaking. evdev is normally configured in xorg.conf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
3. I noticed that the CLI and GUI keymaps differ (e.g. no Tab via Shift+Space in GUI). Where is the CLI keymap defined for comparison?

X11 uses a separate key map. Both key maps are taken from Arch Linux for the N900 as mentioned in the first post. The X11 key map has some problems that are yet to be fixed that have been inherited from the Arch patches. The console key map gets installed with this command and then ends up under /etc/console/boottime.kmap.gz

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
4. LXDE battery monitor may not work. I say "may" because I only tried with power cable connected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443601)
No, it doesn't work. Afair the reason is that it only looks in /sys/class/power_supply/BAT* but it should look in /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0
I had a look at the code long ago and I believe this is easily changed. But on the other hand I could have sworn there is a way to configure this without recompilation, which doesn't seem to be true - so no idea how accurate my memory is here.

E17 has the same issue although I've not yet looked into it. If the problem is as you describe, I wonder if it could be worked around by creating symlinks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
Other than that I'm quite impressed.
btw. is there an easy way to overclock the CPU within Debian, probably the same way KP does it in Maemo?

I'm personally not interested in overclocking so I haven't looked into that at all. I would assume it would be similar to KP under Maemo but bare in mind that things may have changed in recent kernels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443501)
I didn't try phone functions so far, but I'll try soon. Unfortunately the fso-deviced package isn't installable on i386/amd64 atm. Not sure if it's any better on armhf. I guess it's due to changes in connection with systemd introduction (but right now it doesn't work with sysvinit either).]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443601)
It doesn't install on armhf either, with the same error. I filed a bug report:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr...cgi?bug=766114

Note that my scripts revert to good old System V init (at least for now). When Debian changed the default init system to systemd, it broke the N900 power button functionality. I'm loathed to troubleshoot problems with Lennartware so I installed System V init and within an instant all sanity was restored! :)

oFono is also available for Debian if you want to try an alternative to FSO.

sulu 2014-10-21 05:52

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1443617)
I experience this sometimes too. I think lifeguard timer is being triggered and is resetting the device. Try activating R&D mode to see if that makes a difference.

Maybe I will. But it's not much of a problem and since it's predictable I'm fine with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1443617)
When did you grab the scripts? On 8th October I merged this pull request from Niko2040. Perhaps the EmulateThirdButtonTimeout value needs tweaking. evdev is normally configured in xorg.conf.

I downloaded the zip you provided in the first post on 17th or 18th and created the SD card on 18th.
I think the problem lies deeper since at least to my understanding /dev/input/by-id/ should be present regardless of xorg.conf. It should be there once xserver-xorg-input-evdev is installed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1443617)
X11 uses a separate key map. Both key maps are taken from Arch Linux for the N900 as mentioned in the first post. The X11 key map has some problems that are yet to be fixed that have been inherited from the Arch patches. The console key map gets installed with this command and then ends up under /etc/console/boottime.kmap.gz

In Easy Debian I copy the whole /usr/share/X11/xkb directory from Maemo to the image (and then set xkb-data on hold). This is the only way I've found so far to make sure the keymap is correct. I tried different things with setxkbmap (the N900 keymap is in Debian) but can't make it work correctly. According to diff both directories are identical.
I'll try if that works for DebiaN900 too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1443617)
E17 has the same issue although I've not yet looked into it. If the problem is as you describe, I wonder if it could be worked around by creating symlinks.

Afaik one can't create symlinks in /sys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1443617)
Note that my scripts revert to good old System V init (at least for now). When Debian changed the default init system to systemd, it broke the N900 power button functionality.

I know. I also reverted to sysvinit in one of the VMs mentioned in the bug report, but it seems this doesn't have any effect on what apt does when installing packages.
I guess in the long run there's no way around systemd in Debian because sysvinit compatibility just won't be maintained actively anymore and I don't believe that any of the recent attemts (new GRs) will really change that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1443617)
oFono is also available for Debian if you want to try an alternative to FSO.

phoneuid indirectly depends on fso-deviced and dos1 promised to make sure phoneui will be supported on the Neo900 running Debian. And since I consider DebiaN900 mainly a testbed for the Neo900 I'd like to use the same solution here.

Niko2040 2014-10-21 14:20

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 1443617)
When Debian changed the default init system to systemd, it broke the N900 power button functionality.

What do you mean by broke the N900 power button functionality? When I press power button on my N900 with E19 + systemd, it's offer me to poweroff. E19 input settings recognize N900 power button as XF86PowerOff, and you can set action on this key at input settings as well as at ACPI settings too.

sulu 2014-10-21 16:22

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
I think I know why the battery monitor doesn't work.
For comparison my netbook:
Code:

$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/uevent
POWER_SUPPLY_NAME=BAT0
POWER_SUPPLY_STATUS=Discharging
POWER_SUPPLY_PRESENT=1
POWER_SUPPLY_TECHNOLOGY=Li-ion
POWER_SUPPLY_CYCLE_COUNT=0
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_MIN_DESIGN=8400000
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_NOW=7500000
POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=1192000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=6580000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=4194000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=3337000
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY=79
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY_LEVEL=Normal
POWER_SUPPLY_MODEL_NAME=901
POWER_SUPPLY_MANUFACTURER=ASUS
POWER_SUPPLY_SERIAL_NUMBER=

Notice the key POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW which is used to determine the current charge of the battery:
Code:

$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_now
3237000

On the N900 (on battery) I get this:
Code:

$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/uevent
POWER_SUPPLY_NAME=bq27200-0
POWER_SUPPLY_STATUS=Discharging
POWER_SUPPLY_PRESENT=1
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_NOW=4012000
POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=307912
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY_LEVEL=Normal
POWER_SUPPLY_TEMP=311
POWER_SUPPLY_TECHNOLOGY=Li-ion
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=2056320
POWER_SUPPLY_CYCLE_COUNT=22
POWER_SUPPLY_POWER_AVG=315818

POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW is missing so the battery monitor has no way to determine the current charge of the battery:
Code:

$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/charge_now
cat: /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/charge_now: Keine Daten verfügbar

("No data available")

wicket 2014-10-22 01:45

Re: DebiaN900 - A set of scripts to facilitate the installation of native Debian (WIP)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443623)
I downloaded the zip you provided in the first post on 17th or 18th and created the SD card on 18th.
I think the problem lies deeper since at least to my understanding /dev/input/by-id/ should be present regardless of xorg.conf. It should be there once xserver-xorg-input-evdev is installed.

The zip is automatically generated with the contents of the master branch so it sounds like your copy contains Niko2040's patch. I changed the value of EmulateThirdButtonTimeout to "750" and it's working much better now. I will update the script to make this configurable in the conf file and I'll set a more sensible default.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443623)
In Easy Debian I copy the whole /usr/share/X11/xkb directory from Maemo to the image (and then set xkb-data on hold). This is the only way I've found so far to make sure the keymap is correct. I tried different things with setxkbmap (the N900 keymap is in Debian) but can't make it work correctly. According to diff both directories are identical.
I'll try if that works for DebiaN900 too.

These are the XKB patches that are downloaded and applied to /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51. If you want to restore the original file just run apt-get --reinstall install xkb-data.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443623)
Afaik one can't create symlinks in /sys.

Yes, this seems to be the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443623)
I guess in the long run there's no way around systemd in Debian because sysvinit compatibility just won't be maintained actively anymore and I don't believe that any of the recent attemts (new GRs) will really change that.

There's been a lot of FUD spread about the latest GR. I'm quite optimistic about the situation. Most of the opposing responses are concerned that the proposal has come so close to the Jessie freeze rather than opposing it all together. As I understand it, the GR is not about changing Debian policy but rather about enforcing it due to some misunderstandings. Debian calls itself "The Universal Operating System" and the Social Contract states "We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software community. We will place their interests first in our priorities. We will support the needs of our users for operation in many different kinds of computing environments." so I don't really see anything changing. Should it change and should systemd become the only supported init system, it's bye bye Debian for me but I very much doubt that it will come to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1443680)
I think I know why the battery monitor doesn't work.
For comparison my netbook:
Code:

$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/uevent
POWER_SUPPLY_NAME=BAT0
POWER_SUPPLY_STATUS=Discharging
POWER_SUPPLY_PRESENT=1
POWER_SUPPLY_TECHNOLOGY=Li-ion
POWER_SUPPLY_CYCLE_COUNT=0
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_MIN_DESIGN=8400000
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_NOW=7500000
POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=1192000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=6580000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL=4194000
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW=3337000
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY=79
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY_LEVEL=Normal
POWER_SUPPLY_MODEL_NAME=901
POWER_SUPPLY_MANUFACTURER=ASUS
POWER_SUPPLY_SERIAL_NUMBER=

Notice the key POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW which is used to determine the current charge of the battery:
Code:

$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/charge_now
3237000

On the N900 (on battery) I get this:
Code:

$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/uevent
POWER_SUPPLY_NAME=bq27200-0
POWER_SUPPLY_STATUS=Discharging
POWER_SUPPLY_PRESENT=1
POWER_SUPPLY_VOLTAGE_NOW=4012000
POWER_SUPPLY_CURRENT_NOW=307912
POWER_SUPPLY_CAPACITY_LEVEL=Normal
POWER_SUPPLY_TEMP=311
POWER_SUPPLY_TECHNOLOGY=Li-ion
POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_FULL_DESIGN=2056320
POWER_SUPPLY_CYCLE_COUNT=22
POWER_SUPPLY_POWER_AVG=315818

POWER_SUPPLY_CHARGE_NOW is missing so the battery monitor has no way to determine the current charge of the battery:
Code:

$ cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/charge_now
cat: /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/charge_now: Keine Daten verfügbar

("No data available")

If that's what's causing it, I think we're looking at a driver patch to fix it.


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