Nokia with Sailfish
 

It's confirmed by now that Nokia is comming backat about the end of this year, apparently with Android powered phones, so far.
Anyone heard anything else? I really think that continuing with MeeGo (or rather licencing Sailfish) would be a total hit for both companies.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

For both companies? No, my friend. Much as I like Maemo and can tolerate MeeGo and Sailfish, let's get back to the ground and see it from the business perspective, shall we?

Projected number of sold units with Androud: ~5-10 million
Projected number of sold units with Sailfish: ~5-10 thousand (being generous here)

It seems like a no-brainer to me.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

No it wouldn't. why would it?

But a good start would be to remove Jolla leadership.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

That's right. BUT. The market is a little bit overwhelmed with plain touch phones. Whatever you buy it's either i or a, and both are quite the same, nevertheless who produces them (so will the Nokias be all the same). Sorry, I don't know how else to put this.
And Nokia did tend to be different, before, at it's "golden" age.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

I could firmly aggree with the latter.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Let me guess. Your first language is not English (Hungarian by any chance, judging purely by your nick?). In that case I think you put it perfectly.

Yes but the Nokia of those days no longer exists. The times no longer exist. It is easy to be an innovator and market leader at the infancy of a new technology. By now, however, all the low hanging fruit has been picked. We have been through all the fancy designs and settled on just a few winners. It's the same with every evolution, whether biological or business.

There was the Cambrian explosion of life, when nature created a lot of new body designs, including some strange ones with five eyes etc. In the absence of anything else, these may even have had a chance for a while. But natural selection soon weeded them out and settled on a small subset of winning designs.

The 1980s and 1990s were the mobile phone equivalent of the Cambrian explosion. But most designs, whether hardware OR software, have turned out to be evolutionary dead ends. The world has settled on just one hardware design, a boring rectangular slab with a glass front, and just two software designs. Anything else is destined to remain at the fringe, eking its meager life from the scraps left over by the giants.

This is not to say that it will stay like that forever. There was a time when reptiles ruled the world. If you were not a reptile, you might as well not have existed at all. The few mammals who existed at the time were small and miserable. Then something happened and suddenly the dominant life form are the miserable mammals.

Will the same happen with mobile technology? Definitely. The very success of the winning design will become its downfall. There is so little variation that the same event that kills one of them will kill them all. Just like the advent of a slab with a glass front knelled the demise of the candybar design.

Is Sailfish such a death knell for Android and iOS? Definitely not. Not nearly revolutionary enough. What is? I have no idea.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

I am sorry to have to state this again, but it is a recurring mistake that people for some reason make again and again!

Nokia is not going to make any smartphones.
Not in 2017, not ever. Nada. Just live with it.

There is a small (and insignificant IMHO) startup company called HMD Global or something like that, which has licensed the name "Nokia" and is going to come out with few Android devices but that does not mean NOKIA is going to make phones.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

That's how I understood the recent media-reports (My mayor source german heise.de).

I was already wondering about the first post.
Nevertheless: pishta74 do you have a source for this news?

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Yet, Nokia will be observing the production to ensure that HMD produces its devices within Nokias standards, so people can expect the "Nokia-Quality" they expect from this brand.
So, Chinese phones which will look and feel like Nokia devices.
Most people won't even notice the difference,...apart from the lack of "great ideas" and "new approaches" etc...and...Maemo/MeeGo.

Does mean we'll never get an N900 successor. *sad*

But yeah, Nokia smartphones will probably will be "more of the same" in the android sphere...

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Just like they've always been. Android sphere now, Symbian sphere before, what's the difference?

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Sailfish is dead.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

wow, are you the fat lady?

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

[slow clap]

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

I kinda liked the thought of a Nokia device with sailfish but sailfish aint mature enough for daily use and with the fact that market is saturated and profits aren't that high anything is possible.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

That is a possibility. I would not count on it, but I cannot deny that it might even happen; it is possible that the upcoming devices are good. But sure I am not holding my breath.

IF that happens, and IF it is possible to port SFOS to a HMD high end device I sure will try to do that. Otherwice, they will be of no use to me.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Well, then I have to be very immature, because I use it as my daily system. ;)

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Using an immature system does not make you immature, though posting things like the above might.

How usable Sailfish is to you depends on your usage pattern. I also use it as my daily system but I would not recommend it to my niece or to my boss, for example. And frankly, do you use really use Sailfish as your daily system or Android on top of it? Think about it.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

no need to apologize dear :D:D:D. There should be a thread regarding shortcomings of the sailfish OS, i bought intex aqua fish a while ago and it is collecting dust in the shadows. really disappointed.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

As stated in many posts before this, I don't use android apps or even have alien dalvik installed.
About recommending Sailfish to my niece or boss, I would and do. But then again, I don't think I'm that much smarter than them, that I can handle a system that they can't. ;)

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

There are lots of threads about SailfishOS shortcomings and if you are disappointed of Sailfish, it's only because you're expecting the wrong things. It is not, I repeat, NOT iOS or Android.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Back in the days Nokia phones tended to be different. They weren't just boring candy bars or slabs of glass. Nokia also tried out new/different things. Nokia set itself apart with new ideas and concepts, unlike today's manufacturers who try to sell new phones almost solely trough its specs or lack of updates for their older devices.
Devices such as the Nokia Communicator, with its dual display, dual keyboard design, were nowhere to be found by its competitors. The Nokia E-Series, with its interesting keyboard mechanisms, such with the E60, was also unique in their design. (as far as I know)
Or the Nokia N86/N95/N96, with their dual-slider mechanism, are, as far as I know, also unique. Not to mention that the hidden multimedia-keys were useful as f***.
The Nokia N93(I), was a phone with its main focus on the camcorder function.
What about the Nokia-NGage? Sure it flopped, yet Nokia tries sth different than the rest of the market.

Then there was the N900, which was promoted as open device, meant for hacking and "doing what you want" with the device. There even was Nokias "Push"-event, inviting others to show Nokia what they could do with an "open" platform like the N900.
There hasn't been a manufacturer, yet, who did the same, with the same amounts of effort.

Even Nokias newer phones were different than the like of Samsung and such.
The Nokia N8 for example, although running an truly aged OS, was still a neat phone, with cool ideas, excellent built-quality, and spec-circle-jerk-free advertising, inviting people to make short movies with the N8's camera. (There might've also been a short movie produced by Nokia, promoting it's cameras macro capabilities. I remember it leaving me quite stunned, when I first saw it. I don't remember it's name, though

There were even more "weird" devices from Nokia, but I have no experience with them.

There was a Nokiaphone/Series for almost everyone!
Want a multimedia-focused/all round device? Pick sth out of the N-Series.
Want a messaging device? Pick sth out of the E-Series.
Do you want a phone only for SMS and calls? Pick any of the other Nokia phones, in your preferred size, form and color!


Nowadays, (android)phones usually are a boring sandwich of metal and glass, using the same chipset across almost all manufactures, with the rest of the phone differentiating in only nuances. Snapdragon Chipset, 4-6Gigs of ram, camera sensor from Sony, waterproof-aluminum-glass housing with all its pros and cons, a 5" to 5.5" IPS or SAMOLED screen, varying amount of bloat on the device and a almost guaranteed lack of updates as soon as the successor of the chosen device was announced.

To me, it feels like, you get the same phone only with a different housing and brand on it.

tl;dr: Smartphones are boring nowadays and Nokia phones were not.

Well, it's an official statement, that Nokia will kinda supervise HMD's production.

"Nokia Technologies will take a seat on the Board of Directors of HMD and set mandatory brand requirements and performance related provisions to ensure that all Nokia-branded products exemplify consumer expectations of Nokia devices, including quality, design and consumer focused innovation."

Source: http://company.nokia.com/en/news/pre...es-and-tablets

"Consumer focused innovation", sounds like sth the old Nokia would say.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

It doesn't hurt to support both systems. We have libhybris after all.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Yes, and they all ran Symbian.

You were complaining about "the same old Android sphere", not about "the same old rectangular slab sphere". So what is really your objection? That all phones run the same OS? Then you will have to apply that also to the age when they all ran Symbian. Or is it that all phones look the same? Then you must also include all those running Sailfish.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Well, yeah, but in this case symbian != symbian...
Just about each and every device ran a different fork of the platform code, a horrible mess of configuration management...

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

No, i was complaining about the lack of variation, innovation and diversity, within said 'android-sphere'.
As i said, hardware and software wise they are all almost the same.
They all run on the same chipset, have the same RAM, same camerasensor, either a metal unibody or glass and metal sandwichbody, and, for the most part, have no software optimizations that truly sets them apart.

Phones these days, have no soul.

Sailfish?
Sailfish is definetly playing in its own league.
Altough Jolla was quite nokia-ish, with its entry into the smartphonemarket, asd they released a OS that was different than its competitors and released a smartphone with a few neat ideas (TOH).

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Is it dead or just flopping on the deck...

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

People need to stop beating this dead horse.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

That's what some (layman) people from my family complain about - all the phones are just the same.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

wow, me expecting the wrong things, ok then expecting an average battery backup is a wrong thing, dont get me even started. and yeah i have been using nokia n900 for the last 5 years, bought android last month and gave it to a friend because i was a maemo guy and i was awared of everything, even the fa*pening. just patches and patches is what sailfish community is living on, the worst experience is the stock sailfish. no android no ios. sorry i have been expecting the wrong things i think. :mad:

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

While I most sincerely hope for the success of Jolla,
after years of frustration and disappointment starting with the N950 debacle and a recent post about the availability of some N950 prototypes, I have to admit that when I read Foxia's post it made me laugh. The lyrics of sponge bobs theme song then came to mind

"If nautical nonsense is something you wish, then drop on the deck and flop like a fish!"

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

So, in your opinion, im wrong?

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

I heard Ari Jaaksi setting up a new nokia team, launching a new product.

If I was hired to do a presentation for Jolla team back in the days(or even now) it would be that hardware is king and software is just software. You break with something you can show, view and feel. When android and iOS are knocked of the thrown in the future it won't be by an OS(unless Google/Apple doing a replament) it will be by other hw...stylish, cool and sexy. Make it shine, jolla. That presentation would be relevant today as well it seems.

What could Samsung do with the OS?

Btw, what is Ari Jaaksi doing today and what he do with the OS?

So many questions an so few answers. :D

Take a step back and think about what this thread is about? No indication of sail and Nokia.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

It's the opposite. I couldn't agree more that all modern phones are just the same. And that's a pity.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

And my point was that software-wise they were the same in the Symbian days too, so I really do not get this nostalgia after the "good old days". Different variants of Symbian do not count, you may as well count different versions of Android and the variety of vendor-specific launchers today.

I give you that there is no hardware variation. I addressed that in post #6. There is little point repeating it again.

I absolutely agree with the different league bit, although perhaps not for the reason you expect. I occurred to me the other day when I was reading yet another post somewhere about yet another wish for a Sailfish phone. It reminded me of the times in a socialist contry that no longer exists, how excited we were about the release of the new model of Škoda. At the time when the rest of the world was driving Fords, Volkwagens and Toyotas.

Sailfish is just like that. Years behind everyone else and the gap is widening. There is little hope in getting the basics, like a working keyboard or a separation of "select" and "copy". We had to wait three years for such a basic feature as a character counter in SMS. Things that are considered basic on other OSes, like screen sharing or data mirroring for example, are completely beyond the realms of dreaming. And we have a clientele that are actually [i]thankful[/u] for that :eek:

TOH was a good concept. Not revolutionary but good. It was something that made Jolla stand out a little, in the world of no variety. In biological terms, it was not like a difference between breathing water and breathing air, not even like the difference between eating grass and eating meat, it was more like the difference between one hump and two. But in the world where all animals are air-breathing, grass-eating single-humped camels, two humps might make a difference. And what did Jolla do with this one single advantage they had over others? They killed it. Not just once, but twice! First by using it for the most useless thing imaginable, then by dropping it altogether.

Other than TOH, what does really Jolla offer that the others don't? Sailfish phones are just as boring as any other hardware-wise and not really that exciting software-wise. When someone showed people that phones did not have to be wired to the wall, that was something new. When someone showed them that they did not need a keyboard after all, that was something new again. What does Jolla and Sailfish bring new to the world? A slightly different UI? Don't make me laugh.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Yes, all people should read "Introduction to Logic" :D That should be a minimum requirement to post here ;)

But since it's not. I'm out of this thread indefinitely.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Great text, and this is completely what I was aiming for!
All the phones nowadays are just boring bricks with the same features.
I could kill for a nice QWERTY phone like the E7 was back then, even on Android. and I certanly hope that returning of the Nokia brand into the business would push again some more creativity into it.

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

One can hope, but not depend on the hope or else it will turn to despair in the end :D

It's like; people do have high hopes for the HMD devices. My wife wishes to get a device with a decent camera; decent in the pureview sense that is.

I have cautioned her that it has really small chance of ever happening, but she does yearn for it since nothing in the current market is good enough for her :(

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Sometimes I don't get why you are using a Jolla :)

Re: Nokia with Sailfish
 

Best way will be to give 2 FW?
So i can vote for flash Android or Sailfish. Also Nokia/HMD can view access of FW-Downloads to evaluate if it is a market for Sailfish.
Obvious Sailfish has to add feature like SIP, VPN and so on.
Best way where if the EU give financial support to push a non US OS.
But i think it will be more possible a new Russian OS (base on maemo) :/