New Generation of Maemo
 

so all my developers brother's and sister's i just created this thred to ask u all guys who uses this n900 mobile computer are u happy with this operating system? user interface or watever we got in this? ive always respected our developers here. u guys r great. u guys always helped us in any kinda problem i just wanted to say is maybe if u can do something new to this maemo 5 that once again we can beat all phones of year 2012.
creative minded peoples i welcome ur suggestions here. plz help us to bring back this phone again in this new generation world?
do u guys feel that this should happen?

Maemo Developers u r great

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

In proper english ?

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Maemo is a piece of junk.
It's an incredible mix of software of all ages, it's full of proprietary blobs and an excellent example for the meaning of the term "dependency hell". Frankly I'm surprised it works at all.
So no, I'm not happy with it.

Unfortunately compared to most of the other smartphone OSes out there it's still the least annoying one.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Guys maybe developers can make it better than dis?

sorry for my bad english

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Dead, it is. A new generation, we will not see. Oh no. One by one the existing phones will fight honourably until there's not a single firmly attached microUSB port left. And then, history will turn into legend, legend will turn into myth.

That said, I don't think that Maemo is a piece of junk at all, and if the Lumia platform had been on Maemo, I would not be on Android now.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

thats wat im talking about that someone may see our request and start developing something new for dis junk.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

What an idiotic thing to say

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

im happy with maemo
its just great
maemo can do all i need why u r not happy

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Maybe check http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU for Maemo5 improvements?
As long as important parts are closed source it's really hard to continue development, and Nokia has currently no plans to open more code as it's rather complicated (requires lawyers and further testing and both costs money).
Maybe also check out http://merproject.org/ which is based on MeeGo.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Ask the kernel-power developers why KP is still based on 2.6.28 instead of 3.x! Then you'll know why. To make it short: The binary blobs needed to run the hardware are only available for the 2.6.28 ABI and since they are closed source they can't even be recompiled for newer kernels.

Or ask the Easy Debian developers why it was so long a wild mix of Lenny and Squeeze and why it still needs ugly hacks to make it Squeeze-compatible. Well, I'm an Easy Debian developer, sort of. And I can tell you that the reason is the mixed nature of the underlying Maemo system which is a Mix of Squeeze, Lenny and even older software which Easy Debian needs to be compatible with to work properly.

As for the dependency hell, have a look at the Marble thread! Then you'll see that there are incompatible versions of monav (one of Marble's dependencies) in the repos. Something like that would be unthinkable under Debian, at least for longer periods.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

I find this quite interesting (not a developer personally) if we were able to base KP on 3.x what difference to the end-user would it make ?

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

im too new to linux maybe thats y i asked dis dumb **** question here. im sorry for all

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

that's not a dumb question at all, there are efforts to that direction and they were mentioned by Andre Klapper in the previous page. It's just that the people that are devoiting their precious time for these developments are getting more and more annoyed by the obstacles Nokia has put them and that's why you'll see angry responses to these kinds of threads. It's only logical.

Check out Mer-Nemo and CSSU anyway

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

disclaimer:
I'm not a KP developer, so what I'm about to say may not be correct.

Only basing KP on a newer kernel version wouldn't change a lot for the end user. In fact I think he wouldn't notice it at all. But being able to move to a recent kernel would change 2 things:
1. KP developers wouldn't have to backport new features or security patches to 2.6.28. Instead they could just use the vanilla kernel or some distribution kernel and had lots of spare time for other cool things because they wouldn't have to do things again which was already done by others.
2. For KP to be upgradeable to an arbitrary newer kernel version would require the binary blobs to be open source. That means a skilled KP developer could examine and judge all the possible consequences a kernel upgrade would bring. As a result the whole free userland of Maemo could be upgraded to newer versions bit by bit and the proprietary elements could be replaced with potentially better open source equivalents because with a completely open kernel we had access to all the interfaces and there were no more blocking dependencies.

I believe that a completely free Maemo would be part of the Debian distribution by now (or at least an unofficial project), minimizing the effort necessary to upgrade the system. Easy Debian would be needless because everything Easy Debian does would be possible in Maemo natively. It would even save resources (mostly RAM). Any project that deals with making some software work on a Maemo device would save a lot of work because (assuming they are already part of Debian) all they had to do would be to check if their GUI is useable on the device.

I'm not a fan of Android at all, but for those who think differently: If Maemo was completely open source porting Android to Maemo devices (including phone support) would be much easier.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

As Sulu said, it is a hack-job pile of shít that barely runs. It could be so easy to fix if Nokia were not such a shower of cnuts.

Things to fix that we cannot because Nokia are a bunch of short sighted rétards:

1. The freaking kernel. Jesus christ, Give us the GOD DAMNED SOURCES for those stupid closed bits? What does it cost you? Just dump a tarball on megaupload or whatever, we will take it from there.

2. The file system. What brain dead mongoloid half spazz chimp thought breaking the file system across two discs was a good idea? Now we have /usr/ on the NAND and have to 'optify' everything!

3. BME/MCE. FúCCCCCKKKK OFFFFFF.

4. Monolithic firmware updates. WHY U NO UPDATE PACKAGES LIEK DEBIAN???

5. Half ássed debian look a-like. Just base on debian fo' reals. Then we would not be in this obsolete hell.

6. Busybox & no man pages. WTF? why? We have over 32GB of storage, how much space did you REALLY save with this horse shít? I bet the stupid '9' trailer video and lame music that came on the eMMC take up more space than GNU utils proper.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad:

nokiAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGRGGGGGGHHH.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

I guess this is much more complicated than you think. I don't think Nokia owns the intellectual property rights to release the source code. For some of it I don't think they even have the sources.
I still wonder if there was a developer in the early days of Maemo who went crazy when he heard that the mobile OS they were designing based on a Linux distro which is almost RMS-approved would be full of proprietary stuff. ;)

Well, busybox is not bad per say. Yes, it's limited but I think it suffices for most of the Maemo users. And since it's not that hard to replace it with a more powerful shell. I think that's ok.
But I agree with you about the man pages. Somebody once told me that he considers packages without manpages to be broken. I tend to agree. I see why Nokia might have left them out of their packages. But I don't see why they don't offer an infrastructure to install them manually.

btw:
Has anybody ever tried to upgrade pulseaudio to something >0.9.16?

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Are you referring to drivers or some separate part of the kernel here? What exactly do you want? And does it have to be opened under GPL?

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

ur th Hero Dude.... ;)

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Maemo is like having the best cake in the world plonked in front of your face only to realise you don't actually have a mouth to eat it with, some of the Devs here have managed to get the cake shoved in every other orriface so we can have a small taste but is just not the same :(

Used my other halfs android last night, she is running ICS. All I wanted to do was run a DI.FM stream but there was like zero multi tasking!?!?! WTF!

So many minor bugs on the N900 cause me sooo much frustration! Seriously Nokia just accidentaly give us all the source so we can fix. 2 years no and it takes me forever to open an email, AAaaaargh!

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/man-pages/

A whole megabyte is, erhm, quite a bit for a Nokian.. And hey, it's a crippled Busybox, Be nice to the challenged and disabled, haven't you learnt? :P

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Thankfully, we have iDont's busybox-power.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

For myself, I've gotta say, I have no problem with Maemo. But then, I'm probably not looking for what other folks are. :)

Maemo is (so far) the only version of Unix on a cell phone that has had any support. (Android, of course, runs on top of Linux, but there's no way to get down to the Linux layer without major hacking.) I can run all my favorite Unix utilities, edit text with vim, write shell scripts, and build apps using standard languages like C++ and standard libraries like Qt. In short, it does everything I want a computer to do.

But there will be other cell phones / pocketable computers in the future running Unix. It is, ultimately, the most successful OS in history, and eventually touches every platform. I don't really care if they end up running a relative of Maemo or not, I'll still be able to bring all my favorite tools and port all my favorite creations over, because in the end, Unix is Unix is Unix...

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

I think Vi_ is referring to all bits that are needed to run a newer kernel. So every Nokiash|t which is bound to the 2.6.28 such as BME.

Vi_ You couldn't have it described any better how I feel about maemo. And still. it's the best mobileOS =/

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

The next cell phone running Unix will probably be a Blackberry with QNX. It's not a relative of maemo. I doubt it will be easy to port maemo stuff over (would love to be wrong).

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

The iPhone runs Unix, too. And that's probably more of Unix than Android would be.
Hopefully Tizen will be a worthy replacement for Maemo...

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

No. Tizen is just another rebranding that will be forgotten...

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

If it shows up on the horizon in a form of a phone which is competitive on the marke and will be developed for a longer period of time then MeeGo...

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

You think it's possible to port plasma active on maemo? i think it has one of the most beautiful UIs.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

So THAT's why megaupload was taken down...

On an on topic note, I did try at some point to have a newer kernel on the N900, but I gave up, couldn't even get it to mount the root fs.

Thinking of implementing a hooking platform, sort of like MobileSubstrate on iOS (had an iPhone since November, so I'm taking ideas from it, at least the jailbroken side of it), that might make things easier, rather than forcing complete rewrites of apps.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

^Your doing what now?

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

this topic is dumb **** i think cuz no ideas to develope this

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Whatever the crap is going on here, Maemo is the best mobile OS i've ever used and N900 the best phone i ever had !!!

Now please get back to your work/school/college/etc

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

I mentioned Mer before in this thread, so: http://makeplaylive.com/ - "Vivaldi is powered by Mer Core and KDE's Plasma Active".
At least these two work well together. ;-)

And I'm not sure how "Can I port $foo to $bar" questions help in this thread...

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

I don't understand this at all. I've got ICS and I have no problem with running audio streams in the background in various ways (podcasts, streaming audio channels/shoutcasts, flash audio streams, etc.) Why wouldn't you be able to play an audio stream in Android? I want to see how I can recreate that to fix it, if you're willing to explain.


Correction: Linux is not UNIX. Sure, it's mostly POSIX compliant, but it's not UNIX at all (for better or worse, personally I often think for a lot of the better) and it has no shared history with UNIX.

Also not UNIX. :P Anyone else want to drag Amiga or BeOS into this now? Sheesh.

Ironically, iOS is based on Darwin (Mach 3), based on BSD, and thus IS a UNIX OS. heheh.. finally, someone got their history right whether they knew it or not. (Since Android runs Linux, yes--it's not UNIX in the least.)

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

I don't understand this at all. I've got ICS and I have no problem with running audio streams in the background in various ways (podcasts, streaming audio channels/shoutcasts, flash audio streams, etc.) Why wouldn't you be able to play an audio stream in Android? I want to see how I can recreate that to fix it, if you're willing to explain.

Sorry could have been a bit more specific, when I clicked on a stream option nothing happened. it looked like it opened a page and then killed it instantly but didn't play anything.

So on my N900 it would just open up the media player and play but my big beef was that I couldn't open the media player, go back to the website (with the media player still open) and some how copy the link, go back to the media player and paste the link to play.

On my N900 I can see all of the apps minimized much like in wondows, it was simply frustrating in ICS, perhaps there is a way round it but I can only assume that the problem would be far worse if I was trying to say update a text file based on a PDF document I am reading. how would I flip easily between the two and does having a web page open add even more complexity?

In the end the other half just installed the di.fm app lol

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

:) :) Ah, yes, we've got an AT&T purist here, eh? I always loved how the AT&T folks would always yell and scream and pout that all the flavors of BSD or Linux or etc were not pure Unix. That code written to run on true AT&T Unix would not necessarily run on any of the derivatives. That you were taking your life into your own hands if you tried using a non-AT&T flavor of Unix.

It took a long time, but eventually that world turned around. Being an AT&T flavor of Unix is no longer important. I can still remember the day when IBM started advertising AIX as being "Linux-compatible". :)

In short, stuff written to run on one flavor of Unix tends to be pretty easy to get running on other flavors of Unix. It doesn't really matter about the ancestry of the code.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

OK, sure, it's not completely accurate to say that QNX is UNIX, I should have said it's a variant. But it is fully POSIX-compliant, and the point is that there will be a phone in the future that may be capable of running standard UNIX utilities.

The question is still out there of what will be the next generation of phones that has the same distinguishing SW aspects as the N9/x0s.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Doh! :) You could also try installing a streaming player like XiiaLive or BUZZ Player or something.. once one of those is installed, the MIME type is recognized and the browser will launch the player as soon as you tap a streaming link.

It's not a purest argument. It's a factual matter of lineage and history. If someone wrote whole new code that implements many of the protocols as another piece of code, that doesn't make the new code a derivative. It's a whole new piece of code that performs many of the same TASKS but in a different way. There was never an argument put to say that code would or wouldn't work when you migrate between POSIX OS's, just saying that Linux isn't a UNIX derivative. It's like trying to insist that ALL tissues are Kleenex. Ultimately, you can blow your nose into any tissue you want and they'll generally work fine--but you're using a SPECIFIC term to refer to a general product and that both a language and history problem. Perhaps you're a student of the Darl McBride school of mixing up your histories and code-bases? :)

As I'd also mentioned earlier, I prefer Linux to UNIX, so I'm not sure I understand your angle of trying to make it sound like I prefer UNIX. heh It's cute, though, and I was entertained just the same. Thanks!

QNX isn't even a UNIX variant. It's simply QNX and it's one of a huge number of POSIX compliant operating systems out there such as UNIX, BSD and an array of very nearly entirely POSIX compliant OS's like Linux, BeOS and so on. It's not UNIX, though. That label has a specific lineage and meaning. Why aren't you calling Linux a MINIX OS? It's MUCH more closely related to MINIX than UNIX, and even then it's actually NOT a MINIX but it was modeled on that very closely.

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Maybe that UNIX discussion would become less heated when we start to talk case sensitive and distinguish UNIX, Unix and unix(oid). ;)

Re: New Generation of Maemo
 

Here's my question: how can you tell the difference? All these various OSs have the same underlying philosophy, the same features, run the same software (at least with respect to open source code, which is most of what I use) -- if you don't call them Unix, just what do you call them? If you say you prefer Linux to Unix, just what is it about Linux that you prefer? It does have a different licensing scheme, and as you note, it was written independently from the original AT&T codebase; but these things have no impact on day-to-day usage...