[Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Just noticed Stellarium Mobile released in to Ovi Store.

https://store.ovi.mobi/content/51934

Cheers,

travla

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Sweet, its about time it got through QA :)

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Nice, maybe someone in Nokia read about the related thread last week lol

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Well worth the $3 bucks, US...

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Is it my imagination or has there been a slight increase in app activity for maemo 5? Maybe there is lots of apps that have been in QA for some time.

@YoDude
Do you have time to post a mini review? I'd be particularly interested in how it stacks up against our community app, Orrery.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

just downloaded stellariun its a good app showing the power of N900

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

I'll sum up.

Stellarium Mobile is way better. :)

(imho)

***

All settings in Stellarium Mobile are finger friendly, mostly intuitive, and can be seen easily.

While some of the tabled data base information accessed by Orrey is not available from Stellarium, most of this info can be served better by a text base program or via the browser and the web anyway. However, I do miss easily determined sunrise and sunset times for a given location and time of year.

The last I used it, Orrey could only display the sky using the Transverse Mercator projection. Because this method distorts the view at either pole and that distortion increases based on your perspective, Orrey only used portrait mode.

Stellarium Mobile on the other hand allows you select from 8 different projection styles and explains the differences on this selection menu of what view to expect from each and it can display them all in either landscape or portrait.

Stellarium Mobile provides informative settings menus for things like:

- Time

- Sky (detail, labels, and atmospheric conditions

- Landscape (3 horizon choices with room for more )

- Location (Point on map, GPS, city data base, or coordinates)

- Markings (Celestial and Constellation)

- Starlore (This allows you to mark and label constellations based on cultural or religious delineations from Aztec to Western including many tribal cultures.)

Stellarium Mobile can also overlay constellation art in its sky view just like the app in the iPad advertisement. :)

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

@Matan
is that legal?
can't imagine if you have to pay for it at ovi store..

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

If you buy from OVI you only get this file. Assuming that OVI is legal, this package contains either the source, or a written offer for the source (3a, 3b in the GPL). In either case, further distributing the package (non-commercially) is legal (3a, 3c).

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Ah... and it begins. The ritual eating of our young.

This will be followed by threads asking: "Why can't FOSS compete" or worse; "How come Apples iStore has so many apps available compared to OVI". :rolleyes:

We can't stop piracy but we do have forum rules. :mad:

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Okay, then Stellarium Mobile IS actually open source?
Where can I download the source?

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

So, that site <Link removed pending decision. See page 1.> is yours then?

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Please stop lying, YoDude. The package from <Link removed pending decision. See page 1.> is exactly as legal as from OVI. The fact that you would prefer that it would not be available does not make it piracy.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Did you read what I wrote?

Assuming OVI distributes this package legally, either the source is in the package, or it will be available from OVI for at least three years to any third party.

Look in the package. If the source is not there, ask OVI for the source.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Your action impacts the availability of future software. You may be allowed to disribute the code, but I'd have assumed you have some respect for the developer. He made a great app, and its sold for less than the price of a coffee here, its worth heaps more giving its functionality and features. Now he'll think twice before he releases anything else for us. Given your now anti-nokia, you won't care about future software for maemo, thanks for ruining it for the rest of us who still care.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

I overread the first "must be in package".
So did I got it right:
Since Stellarium is open source, Stellarium Mobile have to be open source as well, right?

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Byte me with the lying crap. This horse **** about Licensing is exactly why FOSS is dead. The whole purpose of this discussion by some was in order to get something for nothing.

My intent has been clear in all this. My enthusiasm for the value added by the author of this program is what prompted my posts. A possible outcome of my actions would be more people purchase this app attracting more developers to the N900 and more quality apps are developed for it.

Your intent seems to be the same as that of a snake in the grass. The possible outcome of your actions is that developers who stayed away because of the ambiguity of FOSS licensing schemes in the past will continue to ignore the N900.

But eh, you saved 3 bucks. :rolleyes:

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

I can't understand how somebody who have paid up to 600 € for a Smartphone isn't willing pay ridiculous 3 € to support a great app and its developer. I would have paid much more for this app. The Price in OVI Store is more than fair. I would suggest to pay for this app when you want to have more apps like this in the future.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

No, he's the original author of Stellarium, he can license his own code however he feels. Don't be a prick and take that package down.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Open source is a meaningless phrase in this sense. There is no agreement on what "open source" is, and even if we accept the common definition of open source as equivalent to free software (DFSG, just to have a concrete definition), there are still too many options.

Stellarium is GPL. Stellarium Mobile is derived from Stellarium, therefore it has to be GPL (unless all copyright owners of Stellarium agree otherwise). According to someone who installed and ran Stellarium Mobile, the about dialog reports that it is GPL.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

You are missing the third option: if Ovi Store is violating the GPL by distributing it, then you are doing it too. No excuse, and you are as liable as Ovi (but also will have a harder time finding good lawyers!!).

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Just buy it, i dont mind paying a little money for a developer who put the time and effort to make this on ovi store... like angry birds :D

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Also, in case you wonder: as there's only _one_ contributor who refused to relicense stellarium into a dual/propietary license, there's an easy way out: just remove that contributor's code.

(Now, that is the point where I would usually cede victory and forget about the entire thing)

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Just to let you know:
I bought Stellarium right now and I see it like a donation.
It is really worth the 2,99€

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Nevertheless, this is a non-story. What we need is:

Get Ovi to comply with the GPL by offering to download the source.

That's about it. Yes, the GPL will make it easy for anyone _who bought it_ to redistribute the binary to anybody without any legal implications... but I guess with piracy rates as they are, who cares?

The author will get some money. We will get the source. Freeloaders will get a third-party built binary. Everybody's happy.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

If you actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I did not ignore this option, since all I wrote was predicated on OVI distributing this package legally. Whether they do or don't, I am not personally worried.

While I might have harder time finding a good lawyer, a potential adversary might have a harder time finding me, and will surely have a harder time enforcing any financial ruling, if and when.

On the other hand, if all your hypothetical lawyer brandishing person wants is for that specific server to stop distributing that specific package, all he has to do is find whoever is in control of that server and ask them. Who knows, maybe they will agree.

On the third hand, if he wishes for this package to only be available to people who pay him first, he had better wish for the moon instead, since it is much better to have, and as much a chance to get.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

You just donated 1 Euro to Nokia.

Wouldn't it have been better to donate all the money to the developer?

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Why do you add "_who bought it_"? The GPL allows anyone to redistribute it (by following the requirements of the GPL). Nothing abour having to buy it first.

Why third-party built binary? By the GPL. Anyone may redistribute the original binary.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Even if I saw that link to the .deb file here, I've just bought this excellent app from OVI store just to show my appreciation to those developers that takes the time to do a quality app for our n900.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

No, he can change the license of Stellarium after he has removed all the code made by others. Or he needs a agreement with the additional developers.

I don't like piracy, I don't like ovi and I also don't like developers who trickery other dedicated developers.

So it is a hard decision for me what I should hate the most. :p

But the fact is, if the source is not in the ovi package there must be a way to ask for the source and download it. I can't see a button at Ovi to ask for the source. Is there a Button in the Application or a Textfile in the package?
Or is Nokia indeed so arrogant that they are ignoring the License?

In this case, is it okay because it's Nokia? :mad:

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

I see what you did there (basically, you just said: "So sue me").

The GPL allows anyone WHO GOT THE BINARY (and thus the source) to redistribute it to ANY third party.
If by some miracle ALL of the people who bought it in the Ovi Store, and received a copy of source, decided not to redistribute the binary... no one who hadn't bought it could get the binary or the source.
So, I hope you bought it (or got it from someone who bought it).

What I was trying to say there is that after any buyer decides to publish it (with source) to everyone, then the binary will be available to everyone. But i'd expect rates of legal freeloading similar if not slighty increased to the usual piracy rates of the Ovi Store, so the author will still make some money.

EDIT: Sorry, misunderstood question. Yes, anyone (again, who got it) might redistribute the original binary.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Then so is this forum for providing the means to distribute...

The first step is to report the need take it down. :)

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Actually, having some experience with Stellarium, I can tell you that there was an effort to offer the main developer (Fabien) a closed source license from all the developers precisely so he COULD sell Stellarium Mobile and some of his own personal enhancements and make a living after his current contract ended.

I believe that every developer with code, except one holdout, was ready to extend that license to him. The only holdout was someone with only trivial code, IIRC, so I imagine that Fabien might have replaced those commits with his own and Stellarium Mobile might very well be closed source, for the time being.

Here's my source:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/f...arium-pubdevel

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

This is a great little application and it's a bargain for less than the price of a pint. I sort of regret giving my niece my telescope now... not that you can see much in London.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Matan made a very bold move here. I don't agree with literally posting the package here, but I do agree to a certain extent with the point he's trying to make.

I will gladly pay the 3 euros once the facts are cleared up. I haven't even tried Stellarium Mobile yet, but it sounds promising.

But if one developer of stellarium still wanted to be under GPL, then OVI store or Fabien are committed to share the source, and Matan has every right to share it too.

Of course, if Fabien replaced the code with his own, then he alone can own the source (if he wants) and has every right to sell it.

But the facts should be cleared up once and for all. This has caused enough confusion as it is. And I don't like watching two of the most respected developers arguing..(it's like watching your parents fight).

IMO Matan should remove the package..at least until the real facts are brought to life.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Aren't we all overlooking a fourth option?

According to the rules Nokia can "make available" the submission.

So potentially, the app being sold in Ovi, is being sold by Nokia, with all profit going to Nokia, and none to Fabien. Additionally, Nokia can give the source/app to whoever they want, including in PR1.3 if they wanted to as a default app.

In terms of encouraging developers, someone else distributing the source/app doesn't help. Any site/server owners are certainly free to prevent hosting it / linking to it on their site. That doesn't necessarily make what Matan has done "wrong", morally ambiguous, perhaps.

Not to excuse this, but let's not forget the Fabien has already gotten $25,000 for this app. Does anyone know if he shared any of these funds with the others that contributed portions of code to "his" app? If the app is being sold as GPL, then presumably at least one of the code contributors refused to re-license their part of the code, and apparently it wasn't code that could easily be removed. Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

If it were me, I would've either insured that the code licensing was such that I could sell it without fear of others "legally" re-distributing it (and cutting into my sales) or I would've asked for donations instead. I'm sure that everyone here who purchased it, would've happily and promptly made a donation had it been distributed in that format.

Wouldn't it be better for FOSS in the long run if everyone donated directly to programmers instead of through app stores where part of the price goes to a corporation?

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Now that is topic worth discussing. Some background; "Donations are not simplified and not enough emphasized". More recently, Flattr has been discussed as one way of donating for FOSS. Donations are also discussed in MeeGo context, see MeeGo User Engagement Framework Project and a related forum thread.

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

you know, you try to pretend you're defending free software and the ideals of the GPL and all that.
in the end, you're just a troublemaker who knowingly breaks the GPL just to attract attention and, in the end, makes everyone lose. (and i'm not talking about potential losses fabien or ovi might have; i'm talking about the fact that both nokia and developers may be watching what happens to stellariumobile now and how one could make free software and ovi compatible. you're not being helpful at all.)

Re: [Ovi Store] Stellarium Mobile
 

Can I ask (not sure if anyone would know)

Does Fabien get ANY of the money


Why is it 3 dollars if your in America ?
Why is it 3 pounds if you are in the UK ?
Why is it 3 euros if you are in the rest of Europe ?

Who set the price, Stellarium full desktop version is completly free, so is the more portable version we have had (probably the same version as the full desktop version) and the iphone app is free also

If this is purely Nokia making money then isnt that wrong ?

I would rather Fabien put a paypal option on his own website to sell the mobile version and not just have it in Ovi