Ask the Council! History thread
 

MOD EDIT: The current council will have it's own thread. But all "Ask the Council!"-history will be collected here.

I want to make this a subforum, but I'm not going to wait for it to happen. So welcome to the thread where you can ask your maemo.org council whatever you like.

I don't know if my fellow representatives will participate (and don't begrudge them if they don't), so I might wind up being the only one answering. But if nothing else, maybe this will reduce the stress on my PM inbox. :D (and most of the PMs I'm getting should be public discussions anyway)

So... fire away!

EDIT: note that the purpose is to engage the council, past and present. Crosstalk between members is okay but it should advance the discussion. Member attacks are subject to deletion without further warning in this thread.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Why do men have nipples?

Great intentions but, you might want to edit that^ bit. :)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Men have nipples because we all started out female in the womb.

And if I was afraid of being fired at I would not have run for council. :D

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Hmm i thought we started as male.

Anyway, my question is, what does it take to get a policy changed. Is there a map somewhere, a flowchart?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

See, I've already helped!

Ah, good question!

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Somehow i don't think that reply deserves a "Thanks!" :D

On second thought, "Thanks" for sending me off to read articles on human sexual differentiation. What a way to spend the evening. :p

Re: Ask the Council!
 

If I was fishing for thanks I'd try deeper waters.

ba da boom!

Re: Ask the Council!
 

who will destroy the ring?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Dear Council, do you think you have accomplished your mission?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I'll bite Texrat:

According to your personal goals for Council stated here, what have you accomplished so far, and what will you accomplish before your term is up?

Edit- this question is directed at each Council member.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

As a new user/community member the main issue for us newbies is taking the first step into this prestigious community but more importantly becoming a useful member. Personally i would love to develop my skills so that i could effectively product test (inc. bug reporting) and eventually develop my own apps for the community.

Already, i have seen a lot of new members join and moan about how their Phone/Internet Tablet doesnt work the way a normal phone would but surely the fun is adapting and improving it for your own and potentially the communities needs.

(Sorry starting to get side tracked)

My question is: One of your goals is to "Transform casual users into testers and bug reporters". What steps/plans have been put in place to achieve this goal and as a newbie what advice can you give in starting in this direction?

Thanks

Luflux

Re: Ask the Council!
 

To my beloved council Texrat,

This could belong a little bit to my Private Message I've send to you several hours ago. (and the other from early December) :D

I've asked for help at Brainstorm. But I get only a advice to ask the next instance. :)

I posted it here. You can read the answer from Flandry here or all together below. :)


So, during I started to merge the two Brainstorms I'm still hoping for help! :)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I blame Gollum.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

No, but we just crossed the halfway mark. Anyway that's a really good question because you made me realize we don't have a mission statement to my knowledge.

Time for a pow-wow methinks...

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Specific to my goals...

Goals for next 6 months

- Improve maemo.org wiki articles

Well, I've mostly performed minor edits so far. Improvements to be sure, but not yet at the scope I'd intended.

- Work to ensure that Brainstorm is a productive, viable process

I've definitely worked at it! Hopefully it will come to something.

- facilitate increased/enhanced interaction with Nokia

Errr... that one has been frustrating. I get the feeling we've actually backpedalled there.

- Transform casual users into testers and bug reporters

Slow but steady progress being made!


- (personal goal: joke less, help more)

Ah... no. I have failed. :o

Re: Ask the Council!
 

This is a hot topic as can be seen here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41179

A lot of members, especially senior ones, recognize the value in improving our testing process. I'm not experienced enough yet to address details or offer advice but for now there are knowledgeable and passionate people pushing hard to lower the entry bar for users and make sure the process steps are useful and the results meaningful. They have been offering a lot of guidance here lately, in the thread above and elsewhere.

I am working on designing a framework I think would significantly help in this matter. The goal is to get as much of the experience directly on/from the device and minimize the hurdles testers have to join. Keep an eye on the User Experience Brainstorm proposal for further developments there!

Re: Ask the Council!
 

As you've seen, I've been frustrated lately by Brainstorm. It seems my understanding of how it was meant to be used is at odds with other key members. This among other things has caused an impasse. I'm not sure what to do.

I'm inclined to accept whatever Flandry wants to do, and that goes for you too. Action that isn't perfect is better than inaction.

Going forward I think we need more collaboration between Brainstorm proposers when overlaps or conflicts occur. And I am also working on a diagram of how I think this should work.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I have a question for my fellow council members: can we have a conference soon?

(also asked on email list)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

New blog post bundling up several hot topics:

http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com...growing-pains/

(think of this as pre-emptive answers)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

I was asking if the Council thinks its mission has been accomplished. You answered that you realized that there was no mission statement.
Well, it can be OK. I seem to remind though that one of the key points in the Council blueprints was to keep alive a communication channel with Nokia and the Maemo staff.

Now, that's the most important issue in my opinion to guarantee feedback for both parties - community and industry. I bet that most of the work must be addressed there.

At least, to the point that the Council is prepared a couple of days ago to OTA upgrades, or maybe to the launch of the second Maemo device, and is ready to manage the waves and ripples generated in the community. Some kind of NDA could be needed of course I know.

What do you think?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

As I said in a previous reply, I'm not exactly comforted by Nokia-to-council relations right now. I sense some distancing... and hope that's a false feeling on my part. But there hasn't been much disclosure (maybe no need), and I sure don't expect to get early notice of new devices.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Without going as far as being informed of the launch of new devices - which wouldn't be evil for Nokia, but that's my humble opinion, as long as well-known russian sites get similar whispers from insiders in a quite less-structured manner - don't you think that some pro-active move should be tried by the Council towards Nokia?

Asking is not offending. Some kind of preparation to the main turning points in the roadmap of Maemo hardware and software, apart from the usual industry meetings, and possibly before, to help this community to walk in the most productive direction for all.

Heck, they can say no, but they could also see the advantages: reduce naysayers, augment positive buzz, having an informed feedback... The smoother is the Maemo experience for all, the better are market penetration and sales, that is what Nokia works for (or not?).

Re: Ask the Council!
 

There have been plenty of overtures. Why would anyone think we had not made any?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

It's absolutely possible I didn't grasp them.
Though, I think that some milestones like, say, distro upgrades, ovi store opening and possible revamping, and roadmap for important apps like Maps (today's hot issue), see the Council members at the same level of other members of the community, i.e. unaware and unprepared until the things happen.
I hope that the Council members ask for a better insight of the next moves, and prepare the community to them. But again, it's likely the Council already did and still does so, and it's me the one that is not aware of all this work.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Ah, I think I have finally found the place where I can ask this question: :)

How often does the karma update? :confused:

After all this talk about karma changes, I started paying attention to mine. It seems that it has been the same for more than two weeks now... I think. Is this normal? Or is karma on hold until the proposed changes are implemented? Or am I a victim of a vicious karma bug? :p

Not that it matters that much... unless karma can get you a free/discounted Maemo 6 device, when it finally arrives. In that case, I want all the possible karma available! :D

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Here you go: http://wiki.maemo.org/Karma

If your answers aren't all there, it's editing time for someone! :D

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Yes, I've seen this already. Even looked at it a couple of times. Now, either I'm blind or the answer to my question is not there. ;)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Looking at that, am I suposed to assume that karma values not mentioned in the 'proposed improvements' wll be unchanged or that things not mentioned will no longer accrue karma?

Actually, I don't find that any less confusing than the current calculation. So I'll take people's word for it that it's an improvement. :D

Re: Ask the Council!
 

The karma update is in process.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Yes, I know. And in another thread. But it was the first time I'd seen that wiki page... and the link was here so I responded here. Was I wrong?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Valerio (VDVsx) is managing that; I'll try to get him to answer rather than speaking for him. But no, you're not wrong to respond here.

FYI: one of my bugs just recently got solved and it's a good start. On your maemo.org profile, the word Karma now has a link to the wiki page. More like that to come. ;)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Excellent! Thank you. :)

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Ok, fine.

To quote Texrat, "Feh!"
I was too naive.

This is something I can certainly focus on in the last months of my term.

Again, naive. But I'm trying, in my small way.

Yes. My flame-proof suit still bears the scorch marks ;)

Yes! At least I met my personal goals!

Where to go from here? I guess I need to track down SD69 and Stskeeps and get them to bring me up to speed on the community SSU.

Honestly, as Texrat said, we've asked. And I think we've had some small successes. You have to remember that we can't force Nokia to become more open, we can only ask and ask and ask. :)

I would like to think that the wonderful and unprecedented changelog that we received when PR 1.1 was released was due, at least in part, to the Council reminding Quim how very important a changelog is to the community in the days before the release. Quim has really been trying to open things up himself, so perhaps he was going to do it even before we asked, but, yes, we did ask.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

We're not dismissing any of the current karma sources, IIRC the only karma sources that will not be changed are TMO posts/thanks and favorites/buries.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

OK, I have skimmed this post and as a new recruit to the maemo family since I go my N900 I will agree with a lot of points. Much of what I have said, it seems, will have been said before but I though I'd summarise my thoughts in a oner.

Be assured I have found the content here invaluable and am grateful to all concerned. I am just passing on my findings as one who is new to a community this size and range through the development cycle.

I have been a software tester but have dealt only with controlled internal environments. For me the environment here seems a little mishmash.

Once signed up for talk it took a little while to realise I needed an extra signup via garage to post anywhere other than the talk section. After signing up it took 4 hours before the registration was recognised.

As yet I have found no way to list what has moved from devel to testing between dates.

I am still unsure where to go to report bugs and if there is a separate section for OS or built in apps (Calendar has a glaring one) and 3rd party stuff added to the repositories.

Given the complexity of the Brainstorm (I read the requirements for creating one after mistaking it for an open ideas forum and could not work out what the hell was requited to make one), maybe it should be restricted to people who have earned the right so as to free up the time of people maintaining it from moving new posts back to the talk area. I'm perfectly happy not seeing it until I have worked out what's what and where to post etc.

I'd like to see sticky, locked topics I could subscribe to where Counsil members could update users on proposed and actual version updates for PC support from vendors for software such as PC suite, Software Updater and Ovi Suite. Something I could subscibe to without seeing repeated posts from people with the same problems (though this is far less than I have seen i other areas). It would also allow new topics on known problems to reference these topics.

As I say, much of this may already be possible or requested but these are my findings as someone who is not overly dense but has only been wandering around for a couple of weeks on home time and has not found obvious to locate or decipher.

And....
I thought it was because both males and females shared both X and Y chromosomes but that one or the other was dominant letting that one show through during development. In mammals that is invariably in the womb but we share the bulk of our DNA with every other life form and there are many that can change gender depending on environment.
Nemo from Finding Nemo for example may well have come back to find his dad a mum for example. It's true, look up clownfish gender change.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Your points are all well-taken Bodestone, and thank you for the contribution. I hope it isn't coming off as dismissive when I say there is progress being made... just not fast enough for most.

The "mish-mash" you see (ie, less strict environment) with testing has to do with the way this community developed. I don't know if we'll ever get as formal as you or others may like, but I think we'll get close enough for our needs. And with your background, you may be able to help drive better practices. See other threads under Community for recent relevant discussion.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Please see Bugzilla.

I'm not sure I'm understanding you here. The community council does communication and coordination work within the community and between the community and Nokia; however, they're neither Nokia employees[1] nor an official support channel for Nokia products. Even were that not the case, non-Maemo Nokia products like PC Suite and Ovi Suite would seem to be well outside the council's area of interest.

[1] Currently. Nokia employees aren't barred from running for the council.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

My question would be: why the council is not driving something, like voting on the Engadget Awards or other community movements? :-)

Somehow I would think, mobilizing would be part of the game.

Re: Ask the Council!
 

The council is driving or supporting numerous projects, all very well-publicized here, so I don't get your question. All you have to do is check threads under Community here, and/or the maemo-community mailing list.

As for Engadget Award voting: that's already been tackled by the community, so... solved, right?

Re: Ask the Council!
 

Suggestion to other council members: I think we should start prefacing all official business threads here with [Council].