Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Something new from Stskeeps :)

Zipper is an Ethereum based mobile platform which brings blockchain based services to our smartphones in one seamless and user-controlled experience.

At first, Zipper provides everyday smartphone users an easy and safe way to manage their identity and private keys. This makes it possible for anyone to access blockchain based services out-of-the-box in an easy and intuitive way - just like Apple’s services on iOS today - while being in full control of their identity, transactions and data.

Zipper works in an isolated compartment in Android and Sailfish OS smartphones, making Zipper and its wallet secure while still easily accessible

https://zipperglobal.com/
and a video with recognisable faces at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtQGu_6tErs

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP3mL8nVwAEALEO.jpg

Does this mean they got the fingerprint scanner working?

Edit: Also, color emoji support? :eek:

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

...or that picture comes from the Android app.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

It doesn't seem to be the case, as the video clearly shows it running in Sailfish OS.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Does it? I see it running on an Xperia X, that's for sure, but Sailfish? Maybe I'm just tired and stupid, but I don't see it. I would be happy if that is the case, though.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

The whole UI behind things was SailfishOS

Was quite cool to see Marc again :)

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

I happily stand corrected but I'm definitely stupid because I still don't clearly identify anything in that video as Sailfish UI. And I've been using a SFOS device as my daily (and only) driver for the past 4 years or so :p

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Make that two of us because i couldn't see Sailfish os also

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Apart from the ambiguity on the OS running the demo app in the video: this project really intrigues me. I guess I'm exactly the kind of people they're trying to market this: I don't have a clue about how all this cryptocurrency thing works, and I've never had the time to even bother trying to understand it (the fact that it seems a bit unpractical to manage, too, didn't help). If this makes it easy and straightforward, I'm definitely all ears.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

I just found Stskeeps. He is right here :D

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Marc Dillon showing up like an ex who's left something at your house.

Hi, yeah, yeah, I know we haven't spoken in a while, how's that project of yours going? Great, great, cool. Look, I got bored of making chargers now I'm doing something with the buzzword of the day and I was wondering, could I tangentially strap myself to your project for little discernible reason? Yeah, I'll buy and give away some of ... what were you doing ... phones yeah right, those phone things you do, sure sure. I'll bundle my app on them and everything. Hey look maybe you could help me finish the app too actually, I know you love doing that? You still really have a special place in my heart (and on my ear), you'd do that for me wouldn't you? No no it won't take any time away from you staying afloat or relevant or ANYTHING like that. And you'll totally be my primary platform, the huge Android addressable market hasn't distracted me at all, I still only have eyes for you. So you'll send out the press releases and do some free work for me? Great great. SO COOL to see you again, look, sorry, but I got to run, BYE.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Watchmaker has it exactly right above in comment #9.

This is about making blockchain and cryptocurrency easy and straightforward.

It's about (in the future) 5 USD up front devices that provide a out-of-box experience for this.

It's not about pointing pointless crap at people - by far.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

So, what does you app do now? I'm pretty sure SFOS handles my identities and private keys very well with the default unix-based tools, thank you very much.

Which "blockchain based services" should I be able to access now? And which benifits do they bring over conventional services, already available today?
I'm sorry but this sounds like another ******** bingo project which only exists because most of the people do not seem to understand the concept behind blockchain-based crypto currencies. The only advantage of crypto currencies like BTC, being able to pay anonymously is long clouded by the many disadvantages like high-risk, unstable prices, transaction fees making daily useage unfeasible and shitty wallet services / softwares losing the funds of their users all the time.
Sure, there are some interesting approaches for the blockchain idea in science, but there still does not exist a single idea for a legit, everyday service based on this technology which convinces me. Instead, this feels more and more like a scam, like its "Dot Com" all over again.

But here is your chance to convince me.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

I would only consider a FOSS cryptocurrency app where I could and HAD reviewed the code for phone home of my wallet details as otherwise I would suspect the app of being able to 'rob' me at any time by on command, time delayed, or randomly execute a transfer of my cryptocurrency to a wallet accessible to the devs. Remember that there are no take-backs or appeals with a transfer, it is P2P.
I also want to state for those who have been fed misinformation, the way blockchain works it is even less annon than transferring money bybank transfer, paypal, or or credit card; essentially it is like cash where every transaction and holder is indelibly recorded on the banknote/bill, announced over the radio, and recorded in a public almanac.
I would not be surprised to find that blockchain based pseudocurrencies were designed by an American three letter police or intelligence agency to have a way to track the flow of black money even when transfers were done offline.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

It is not just about cryptocurrency: Resolving public key distribution dilemma is much more interesting thing.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Seriously guys? Let me help you:

- App running in fullscreen (no notification bar or nav icons);

- Sailfish X default wallpaper visible in the background (~1min mark);

- Sailfish OS default fonts and Silica elements all around (TextField @ 53s).

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Whenever I hear the world blockchain I reach for my bucket...
Best of luck, not interested.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

You must feel nauseated all the time then. I guess that condition can only get worse. XD

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

I have plenty of Android apps that run full screen on my tablet, so this is no proof to my eyes.

Ok, now I see it but it was not that easy to see and also it is not exactly part of the UI (just to nitpick a bit :p)

But at the same time, no "real" Sailfish UI element anywhere (pulleys, glass-effect app background, app navigation by swipes, etc.). I now see that you probably are right, but I still think it is not that crystal clear! Anyway, if so, better.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

The parts visible in the video are isolated from the main OS anyway, its done like that for security reasons so its like a minimal OS container that hosts the blockchain stuff

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Yes, people should read the white paper. The hypervisor is such that the Zipper system is able to take over control of the framebuffer to display it's content and interact with the user, without a rogue app on Sailfish or Android being able to bypass it's security.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

The fact of actually getting paid for your data or renting out your hardware is nice, as is the idea of cryptocurrency-made-easy.

But I'm not too keen on the fact that it uses its own token. It looks like yet-another-ICO, and a company of hoping to get at the center of a large economy. I have become wary of companies trying to lock me perpetually into their product, in an all-or-nothing-style, without alternatives. (One of the reasons I'm not using Facebook or any of its products, for example) Open standards are needed, community-driven, for the sake of progress, not profit.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

This is a really valuable point, I would not have any interest in working on something like this if it was not open. I can't speak for Carsten, but his track record speaks for itself as far as openness and community is concerned.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Interesting read.
However, "secure" is difficult to make bullet-proof. I can be very well designed (like it seems in that case), but there are still some non-controlled attack surface.

From what I understand from the Image 2 (page 12 in https://zipperglobal.com/whitepaper.pdf), both are on top of the same linux kernel (I don't see the use of the hypervisor by the way if that is not a mistake in the image).
From talks of Greg Kroah-Hartman himself, we can see how much of the code in Android's linux kernel is out of tree (millions of lines), and never reviewed. Root exploits are well known.
On other platforms, there is said to be 2 and half kernel below the hypervisor in recent talks (the famous Intel ME case), so the hypervisor may not be the lowest level depending on hardware, and a lot can go wrong below it.
A lot of modems integrated in mobile chips have direct RAM access (which give Neo900/Purism solutions a selling point), and probably contain backdoors or at least vulnerabilities.

On another side, this container files are on the same disk as the Android/Sailfish system is, so there can be also exploits in filesystems drivers that can leak things there.


So, it is probably the best solution possible so far, and Stskeeps is someone I could trust on this, but I always take with a pinch of salt all things that are marketed as "secure" (macOS was probably presented with a "secure" login screen a few days ago :D).

Nice to see you back, Stskeeps. Good luck with this project !

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

It all comes down to the threat model and who's your attacker. You don't necessarily want to have a Swiss Bank like security for most operations. It's not necessarily devices for a cypherpunk. It's meant to be for everybody and get people on a 'secure enough' setup. You want to make sure people don't needlessly lose money in scams, through stolen phones, or through bad actor apps.

As a comparison, contactless credit cards seem totally crazy security wise. But, actually, when I do transactions below some amount, I don't get asked for PIN. And it's very very convenient in shops. Despite the flaws.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

I'd like to say on my part that a major part of the reason I left Jolla back then was to pursue the idea of combining blockchain and mobile. We were toying with IPFS, Ethereum nodes on Android and Sailfish, Qt-based wallets quite early on. My only mistake was not to buy enough ETH back then. I think "ICOs" are terrible.

However. They show that people will finance ideas happily if they get a stake in it. We try to do things a bit more orderly - gauging interest, have people commit funds they have time to withdraw; make people re-confirm the interest; appropriately identify who contributors are, do anti-money laundering checks; be transparent; etc. We aren't even trying to raise 180m+ USD ;)

If you read the whitepaper ( https://zipperglobal.com/whitepaper.pdf ) the token itself is not a lockup. See this section for example:

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

And if both of you had appropriate devices you'd very easily be able to exchange basic cryptographic identity information through something like Ultrasonic networking in person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6lRq5spQmc

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Every app should have it's own sub-account of it's own separate from your regular money. You can do P2P or take-back systems if you design them to just fine - it's just another kind of token.

Albeit not that mobile capable yet (too much RAM requirements), https://z.cash/ is quite interesting technology.

Regarding the public ledger; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones were a interesting historical precedent.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

******** bingo is awesome.

This is far from being such a project. I fully agree that the current state of things is crazy and this is part of the reason why we're doing a project to genuinely make it a proper out of box experience. I even get confused with some of the setups needed - I even randomly found 250 EUR worth of Bitcoin I had totally forgotten I had. It's like the amount of manual work to get mobile internet working back in the day.

How about you send me a private message on here and we'll have a more real-time conversation on some medium (Telegram? IRC?); and then gather our thoughts and differing views into a post for the rest?

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

At 1:02 you can see Lipstic Multitasking UI in background.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

You guys are putting way too much weight into props (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatrical_property ) used for a recording a movie to get a point across.

I'll let you know when we can show something you can touch and feel and try out in person.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

I've had very limited experience with crypto currencies and remain unconvinced. I enabled payment by bitcoin a few years back and all I got was 'people' wanting to host awful porn or stolen software licences.

Also, this could be scaremongering from Visa but when you read that bitcoin mining uses more electricity than Ireland or 5 times Europe's largest windfarm, you have to wonder WTF we're doing.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ricity-ireland

So, convince me. Why is this a good idea? What purpose does it serve?

And then we've got to get past the disappointment of Jolla's delivery.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Indeed bitcoin uses a lot of electricity for the mining, but the world of cryptocurrencies extends far beyond what bitcoin has to offer. In many ways bitcoin is starting to look a bit archaic compared to some newer offerings.

So why is this a good idea? with things like ethereum tokens you can design your own economy and incentive structures and see if it works. Normally this kind of economic experimentation has only been the area of governments who are naturally conservative about these things so it will be interesting to see what people will come up with.

One of the things Zipper is interested in is economies around ideas and creating incentive structures to make those ideas a reality through spontaneous collaboration rather than winner-takes-all competition.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Valid concerns, but as generation of clean energy increases year on year and the performance over power consumption increases I don't think this is much of an issue.

I can understand your disappointment with Jolla, the financial difficulties they had previously. I know they try very hard to keep everyone happy with what limited resources they have. This project isn't a Jolla project, it is a new endeavor, there is no hardware manufacturer to impede Zippers' progress, like there was with the Jolla 1 and tablet projects, which cost the company so much in time, resources and money.

We are working with known factors, the Xperia program from Jolla has so far been a success and is working beautifully as I understand it. You have to remember Zipper is delivering a software solution, utilizing modern hardware which is already available. Developing APKs and RPMs to run on normal devices and tailoring builds for the Xperia to prove that it is possible to build a hardware wallet with adequate security to bring blockchain markets to the day-to-day mobile user.

Jolla's involvement will be to help build this vision, as they have the expertise in the hardware adaptations and platform parts Zipper needs.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Hah! What did I just see! For one second I read "Community Ambassador - Jolla " :D :D

Say what you want, but IMO this would be the solution for Jolla's paid app in the harbour.

@StsKeeps, as this is ethereum based, is there an sdk available?

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

First up, thanks for your reply.

So again, what is your use case here? Providing (another) wallet that user can use for micropayments? How is this to work out when you bind yourself to Etherium, which already became involved in high-risk speculative investments, because people greedily hoping that it will become the new Bitcoin? How can I use virtual currency which value is changing rapidly in short periods of time, so the rate may be double or half by tomorrow? How can I be convinced in the value of virtual numbers which are not backed by real world values (like federal banks and countries for real world currency or company inventory for stocks) and which can simply vanish?
Unfortunately, your statement ("Hey, I just found some BTC with value which were worth **** some time ago") points in exactly the direction of speculative investment with the hope of increasing rates.

Since I'm not convinced by the bases your business relies on, I'm quite sure we won't find any common grounds, and that's ok. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you found a topic the interests you and that you see as opportunity for your business - that's great. I, on the other hand, see quite some potential issues that I want to point out, so the people who are not familiar with blockchain-based projects can make an educated decision.
I may be wrong (which I hope), you may be wrong (which I'm not hoping) - only time will tell.

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Out of interest, did you read the whitepaper?

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Another project from same people who never finish what they started and open new projects :D

Re: Zipper (Turn your smartphone into a blockchain powerhouse)
 

Hi,

I've just read the whitepaper and this is what come in my mind after reading it.

Please add dapps to page 5, I needed to Google for it and you are explaining a lot of things on that page but not dapps.
I do like the word dapps, it sounds nice in dutch.

The part 3 part, how the wonderful world of Zipper could look like isstill far away. The whitepaper isn't giving enough info in my opinion on how the reach to that wonderfull world, are there yet some conrete developers which are commited to Zipper?
Not just Jolla and the Sony hw but maybe some other brands?

There are 1 biljon Zip tokens to be released over years, when i see the images the show 4 years and in the last year the total of 860.000.000 zip tokens is released, is the rest released after that time?

And what happens with the money if someone invest's in the company. When will the invested money(in ZIP tokens I guess) be able to return to the earlier owner?

How does that roadmap look like?

Thanks in advance