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CommunityCouncil 2011-07-09 18:00

[Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
On July 1, 2011, Maemo stands at an interesting crossroads.* In June, Nokia formally announced the N9 Harmattan mobile phone mentioned in Council's previous posting.* Although the stage for the announcement of the device was somewhat awkward, being amongst other marginally related news at the Nokia Connections event in Singapore, the device itself was well presented and showed off the design attributes of the N9 admirably.* A wealth of product information was promptly available online.* Reaction from the general press was positive as well and led to an upswing of anticipation for the phone, which is expected to be released in the next few months.

The device was described at the announcement as the result of Nokia's MeeGo project and is described in specifications as "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan".* As widely expected, it has a Maemo base ("Harmattan") with a MeeGo API.* From the perspective of application developers and end users alike, the phone appears as a MeeGo handset although that technically may not be correct.* Nevertheless, notwithstanding the lack of technical compliance, the device is widely described as a MeeGo device and hoped to lift the profile of the MeeGo project.* Nokia also initiated much activity surrounding the device at www.meego.com, including threads in the MeeGo forum, to describe aspects of the device.* As first reported in the previous Council posting, the N9 has both a closed mode and an open (developer) mode.* Root access and terminal are available as well.* Nokia also announced the availability of a limited number of N950 developer devices in an attempt to increase the number of apps available for the N9 at launch.*

Nokia made no outreach to maemo.org during the N9 launch.* Although not formally reported as such, Nokia received an "exception" from the Linux Foundation for the N9 and is freely using the meego.com infrastructure to provide community support for the N9.* In addition, it was announced that OBS would include Harmattan as a target and that the community apps repository for MeeGo would include Harmattan apps.* While there is reason for increased optimisim for the future of MeeGo, the relationship between Maemo, Nokia and MeeGo is left somewhat out on a limb.* In an IRC meeting with maemo.org council, new Nokia liaison Matti Arias confirmed that all of Nokia's Maemo/MeeGo related ifs focused on promoting the N9.* Such promotion will not involve maemo.org.


The future of maemo.org is uncertain.* While there may be a new sub-forum for the N9/N950 devices, it is mainly for organizational purposes as maemo.org is unlikely to be the "home base" for the devices.* There are numerous directions in which the community may move.* For example, the Swipe UI/UX layer of the N9 is closed source and so there will be interest in developing an open source community alternative.* Alternatively, the community can simply continue on with support for previous versions of Maemo.* The staying power of maemo.org in the two year interim between the N900 and the N9 has been recognized even by Nokia. There are approximately 1 million downloads per week.**A minimal level of support will continue to be provided by Nokia for at least a year.* In keeping with its history of open governance, the community itself must decide the best direction forward.*



Link: Original article.

Creamy Goodness 2011-07-09 18:17

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
What's with all the *

prankster 2011-07-09 19:03

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
i wonder what to gain out of all this ? for N900 minimum support or almost NO support ? anyway it makes me a little sad.So far ,N900 is far most perfect handset for me ,on the earth .

misterc 2011-07-09 19:38

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CommunityCouncil (Post 1047862)
On July 1, 2011, Maemo stands at an interesting crossroads.* [...]
There are approximately 1 million downloads per week.**A minimal level of support will continue to be provided by Nokia for at least a year.* In keeping with its history of open governance, the community itself must decide the best direction forward.*



Link: Original article.

it is possible to put the source for all the "Community" applications on a different server, independent from NOKIA, should NOKIA decide to stop supporting TMO. or found the site by different means.
how about the firmwares (PR 1.3 aso.)?
there are of course enough copies available in the wild so that it they can be made available even if NOKIA stops providing them, but will there be legal hassle from NOKIA forbidding to make them available?
dito for the OVI programs for the N900 / Maemo;
will it be possible to get the .deb packages or @ least the source codes & continue to "distribute" them even if NOKIA discontinues the Maemo part of OVI?

jo21 2011-07-09 20:02

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
at least a year oh boy.

we have a few projects like cssu, open media player and the other apps that are in the works.

sabryhm 2011-07-09 20:34

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jo21 (Post 1047923)
at least a year oh boy.

we have a few projects like cssu, open media player and the other apps that are in the works.

you are right , really my next mobile will be Samsung or HTC what ever happen:(:(:(

jalyst 2011-07-10 04:37

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
This doesn't sound all that bad to me...
Merely sounds as though meego is becoming the new maemo.
And during that transition maemo will still be supported by Nokia.
Nothing terribly surprising there....

I hope maemo is able to survive in it's own right for the long haul though.
It may be able to contribute an interesting thing or 2 to the meego project & vica-versa ;)
So long as there's not any unnecessary duplication of efforts, it can still remain relevant.

ysss 2011-07-10 04:50

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Won't the maemo 'banner' end with the n900?
Will there be any effort to port maemo to any other devices?

If not, I think it makes more sense to revert the forum back to its previous form (ITT) and have a maemo subcommunity within it to support maemo.

RobbieThe1st 2011-07-10 05:59

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ysss (Post 1048069)
Won't the maemo 'banner' end with the n900?
Will there be any effort to port maemo to any other devices?

If not, I think it makes more sense to revert the forum back to its previous form (ITT) and have a maemo subcommunity within it to support maemo.

I suspect we'll have some bits(hildon-desktop/status-menu) ported to MeeGo and other systems. Mainly because it's lightyears ahead of everyone else, IMHO.
Most will probably want a MeeGo compatible core, for apps compatiblity.
The other contender to look at will be Kubuntu Mobile. It'd be Debian-based, use QT... and might just be the logical progression of Maemo, depending. It'll probably never come stock on any device, though.

danramos 2011-07-10 06:26

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Ironically, I thought I would leave before Maemo would ever leave us, given the way I've been moving further away ever since the move away from INTERNET TABLET TALK over to yet-another ME TOO cell phone and the talk.MAEMO.org branding over the years but I guess I might be wrong. Stupid, Nokia. Numerous stupid missed opportunities and profoundly obnoxious, rancid decisions by an odious crew of executives. Simply appalling. (And yes, it bears repeating because it doesn't appear that it sinks in sometimes.) Been nice knowing some of you and hanging around--especially during the ITT days with my N800. :P

debernardis 2011-07-10 06:58

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
I second the idea of having talk.maemo.org as a subforum of internettablettalk.com.

Since marketing is leaving maemo (oh how refreshing being able to write it without capital initial; branding nazis have flocked away plaguing other forums) - well since that, I think that we could well focus back on tablets, that is the reason several of the die-hards came here at first.

Reggie? What do you think? You're the owner of the domain and your opinion is very important.

lma 2011-07-10 07:56

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1047912)
it is possible to put the source for all the "Community" applications on a different server, independent from NOKIA, should NOKIA decide to stop supporting TMO

Hosting the repository (source & binary packages) is trivial. The autobuilder, not so much.

Quote:

how about the firmwares (PR 1.3 aso.)?
Definitely not, that would be copyright infringement. I would recommend keeping your own local copies of any firmware images you may need.

Quote:

dito for the OVI programs for the N900 / Maemo;
That's up to the individual package authors.

lma 2011-07-10 08:02

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CommunityCouncil (Post 1047862)
OThere are approximately 1 million downloads per week.

Could we have some more detailed stats (reakdown across release repositories as well as extras/extras-devel, trends etc)?

SD69 2011-07-10 14:57

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lma (Post 1048124)
Could we have some more detailed stats (reakdown across release repositories as well as extras/extras-devel, trends etc)?

Yes, with time. The group maintaining the repositories, Nemein, is currently quite busy rolling out the community OBS and app store for MeeGo.

Thanks for the comments. All options can be considered by the community, including continuing with maemo.org when formal Nokia support ends after at least one year. Nokia abandoning the maemo trademark and governance over maemo.org can be viewed as an opportunity. Self-funding can be considered for the community - over 1000 euros was provided solely by the community for the Coding Competition. We can try to port maemo to the extent possible. We've already started a post-N900 strategy with the Cordia project, which aims to get as much of open-source maemo on top of MeeGo core.

klinglerware 2011-07-10 15:43

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
I also support a return to ITT, if/when Nokia cuts the cord on maemo.org.

I am sure it has already been discussed via the council and elsewhere, but I am guessing that replicating the scale of what maemo.org is today may or may not be feasible, especially considering the smaller scale of what ITT once was. Has anybody come up with an estimate of how much an un-subsidized community might cost per year?

Estel 2011-07-10 16:21

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
I'm absolutely sure, that maemo.org can exist as self-funded organization. Just look what guys @ LibreOffice achieved - Oracle hostility towards Open Source become - in fact - start of "jailbreak" for OpenOffice - now LibreOffice, free of non-meritocratic decisions, at last.

In my opinion, Maemo currently differs from other "internet tablets" systems so much, that it just don't fit as subforum at any tablet site, no matter of historical reasons.

I see developing Cordia as best possible solution for us - using Maemo UI on top of Meego core, for both N900 and any Meego or Harmattan devices.

jalyst 2011-07-10 16:41

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Personally I think Internettalktablet's a horrid name. Why not just stay with Maemo?
It's more generic, not locked into one particular form-factor, & we avoid more confusion with yet more re-branding.

The folks that were really into the precursors N770, N800 etc*...
I can understand why they want ITT, but I think Maemo's more inclusive, more "huggable" :D

In the end though I don't particularly care, whatever the majority wants etc.
*I popped in a few times, but never really got into it heavily before the N900

Jaffa 2011-07-10 20:42

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
All the talk about moving from TMO back to ITT misses the point about the rest of the infrastructure which is far more important to Maemo users and also seems to be operating on the assumption that users of other platforms would go to ITT to discuss their issues. There don't seem to be crowds of iOS, Android and MeeGo/Harmattan users beating down the doors at the moment...

danramos 2011-07-10 22:25

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 1048464)
All the talk about moving from TMO back to ITT misses the point about the rest of the infrastructure which is far more important to Maemo users and also seems to be operating on the assumption that users of other platforms would go to ITT to discuss their issues. There don't seem to be crowds of iOS, Android and MeeGo/Harmattan users beating down the doors at the moment...

I think you also missed the point--perhaps there SHOULD be crowds of said users beating down the doors. At the moment, it doesn't suit such an audience, where as broadening the scope of the site would at least invite such activity, as opposed to "maemo" only.

geneven 2011-07-11 00:13

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
There is a GIANT Android thread; maybe Jaffa didn't notice. And, ever hear of Nitdroid? Ever notice typing appearing in the Competitors thread?

And I completely don't understand the statement by one of my most respected users here that Maemo is more 'generc' than InternetTabletTalk. Maemo is virtually DEAD, sorry to say.

The world is wide open for a revival of ITT. A site that is loyal to NO ONE but quality. The INDEPENDENT tablet site, where we had tablets before Apple did.

We have a unique chance to become a big power in the future of Internet Tablets. Or we can stay chained to Nokia and a fading Maemo.

sjgadsby 2011-07-11 00:20

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
So, instead of basing the site name on an operating system Nokia abandoned in the spring of 2010, we'll base the site name on a product line Nokia abandoned in the fall of 2008? For the future!

geneven 2011-07-11 00:24

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 1048562)
So, instead of basing the site name on an operating system Nokia abandoned in the spring of 2010, we'll base the site name on a product line Nokia abandoned in the fall of 2008? For the future!

Internet Tablet doesn't even refer to a product to the normal user. It refers to an idea. One guaranteed not to die.

There has always been a secret fraternity of users here -- I confess I am one of them. I was never loyal to Nokia. I wanted my little pocket computer that had a terminal. This is a great time to break away from the kind of brand loyalty that allows users to be bought and sold -- and betrayed.

sjgadsby 2011-07-11 00:26

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1048564)
Internet Tablet doesn't even refer to a product to the normal user. It refers to an idea. One guaranteed not to die.

So, if we know the site was named for Internet Tablets (proper noun), not Internet tablets (common noun), we're disqualified from the discussion due to the True Scotsman Law?

Are there non-Internet tablets (common noun) anymore?

geneven 2011-07-11 00:32

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
My spiral-bound doesn't go on the Internet, does yours? Neither does my newly acquired Boogie Board (you can find it on Amazon).

sjgadsby 2011-07-11 00:37

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1048567)
My spiral-bound doesn't go on the Internet, does yours? Neither does my newly acquired Boogie Board (you can find it on Amazon).

Bravo! I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one who finds this entire discussion quite humorous.

javispedro 2011-07-11 00:41

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 1048562)
So, instead of basing the site name on an operating system Nokia abandoned in the spring of 2010, we'll base the site name on a product line Nokia abandoned in the fall of 2008? For the future!

We might instead go and base the site name on an operating system Nokia will abandon in the winter of 2012!

Finding a series here :D

Note: do not interpret post seriously.

geneven 2011-07-11 00:46

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
1 Attachment(s)
It's humorous because the powers that be will never understand how wrong they were in joining Nokia in abandoning Tablets just before they went big.

Boogie Board box cover photo attached.

Estel 2011-07-11 01:11

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Going back to serious discussion, Maemo/Meego is a mark for me. Sorry, for neophytes, that bought N900 after all fuss with Nokia, Elop, strategy changes and what not, Maemo != Nokia, same for Meego. for me Maemo is Community. In fact, Community that try to have less and less closed source components in devices used today (CSSU etc.), and to have nice core system for future (Meego !=Harmattan - Meego CE with Cordia on top of it? Yup!).

I think that, if/after Nokia cut off, We can do OpenPandora way. Like it or not, we got no better base solution (i mean only open source components, lets let alone all closed parts) than Meego/Maemo. You can't even dream about truly open source device based on Android, not to mention other mobile OS'es. For Meego with mix of Maemo UI, this is at least possible (although require much work).

If You ask few years ago, if Open Office can be 100% independent of Sun, no one would believe. Now we got LibreOffice. I don't see ANY reasons, why Maemo/Meego can't be developed further in open way.

Why not for "multitablet" forum? Because we got almost nothing common with Android (despite it being false google in penguin disguise), and even less with iOS (sic, lol at even thinking of that) or Windoze mobile.

I agree that there aren't many android or iOS users knocking @ door, but also i doubt that we have anything to talk with them about (metaphorical, of course - on this forum about technical and meritocratic aspects, not in real life situations ;) )

Or maybe I just fail what good and open Android/ iPhone fans can bring here.

geneven 2011-07-11 01:27

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1048573)
I agree that there aren't many android or iOS users knocking @ door, but also i doubt that we have anything to talk with them about (metaphorical, of course - on this forum about technical and meritocratic aspects, not in real life situations ;) )

Or maybe I just fail what good and open Android/ iPhone fans can bring here.

Another commenter who apparently fails to realize that these conversations with Android etc users are already going on ON THIS SITE every single day. EVERY SINGLE DAY.

You guys live in ivory towers, or what?

In fact ITT the original site is STILL HERE in many ways.

I would guess that at least 50% of N900 users have ANOTHER modern mobile phone that IS NOT FROM NOKIA!

That guess might be off, but my impression is that comments like Android users have nothing to say to us are completely off the planet.

lemmyslender 2011-07-11 02:07

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
There are many non-maemo related discussions gping on here everyday.

Why aren't there more users wanting to congregate here? Just off the top of my head, the name? Maybe the generally outright hostile attitude towards them when they do show up?

"internet tablet" could and should cover a lot of ground.

Frankly, whatever we call it, the community should set a goal to be independent of Nokia (as much as possible) in six months. I don't want to be a dog begging for scraps at Nokia's feet. I'd rather show Nokia we don't need them as much as they need us.

The community doesn't need Nokia to survive. Nokia needs the community to have a number of apps ready for the N9 launch. If not for the community, the N9 will have a very few apps for launch. The story on all the sites/blogs would be no apps, no ecosystem, no buy.

I'd say Nokia needs the community more than ever, except Nokia has already committed to the failed of the N9.

At any rate I'm sure quite a few people here are content to sit at Nokia's feet and beg for scraps. At the end Nokia will pull the plug to resounding "but, but, somebody said, somebody promised", and the response from Nokia will be "....".

danramos 2011-07-11 05:22

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 1048562)
So, instead of basing the site name on an operating system Nokia abandoned in the spring of 2010, we'll base the site name on a product line Nokia abandoned in the fall of 2008? For the future!

OMIGOD! What does it say under the screen???

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-cont...t-tablet_1.jpg

Clearly, that PROPER NOUN shouldn't be used in a non-Nokia product! Not as a PROPER NOUN! Good thing they didn't capitalize even a SINGLE letter of that PROPER NOUN of their product's name. :)

But then... I guess they're not the only ones using that term...

http://www.elocitynow.com/prod_a7.shtml
http://www.compusa.com/applications/...231&CatId=6957
http://www.archos.com/products/ta/ar...x.html?lang=en

Yadda-yadda-yadda... oh hell.. just go here, already:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet

If you rail against the "Internet" part of it and prefer to just be a TABLET TALK, I'll be all for that too, then. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemmyslender (Post 1048583)
There are many non-maemo related discussions gping on here everyday.

Why aren't there more users wanting to congregate here? Just off the top of my head, the name? Maybe the generally outright hostile attitude towards them when they do show up?

Yes, I don't understand the attitude that Maemo is the best and the only thing with any valuable qualities. Diversity of opinions and approach is what creates and adds value to a culture and product, but it doesn't appear to be as widely appreciated here as it often is in the more successful "open source" environments and forums and it sometimes almost resembles a sort of "cleansing" whenever you're outed as someone that ended up buying something other than Maemo--that is, suddenly your opinion and perspective no longer matters here and it feels as if you are expected to BUY your way into a valid one. This, in addition to the name itself, is likely why there hasn't been a beating down of doors and the popularity rise you would expect from a more diverse "Internet tablets" (there--happy with the lower case?) forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemmyslender (Post 1048583)
"internet tablet" could and should cover a lot of ground.

Frankly, whatever we call it, the community should set a goal to be independent of Nokia (as much as possible) in six months. I don't want to be a dog begging for scraps at Nokia's feet. I'd rather show Nokia we don't need them as much as they need us.

The community doesn't need Nokia to survive. Nokia needs the community to have a number of apps ready for the N9 launch. If not for the community, the N9 will have a very few apps for launch. The story on all the sites/blogs would be no apps, no ecosystem, no buy.

I'd say Nokia needs the community more than ever, except Nokia has already committed to the failed of the N9.

At any rate I'm sure quite a few people here are content to sit at Nokia's feet and beg for scraps. At the end Nokia will pull the plug to resounding "but, but, somebody said, somebody promised", and the response from Nokia will be "....".

Actually, I would argue that we probably shouldn't completely shun the N9. I would recommend embracing it along with everything else. Granted, we should make a point that we don't NEED Nokia, but I don't think it's fair to EXCLUDE the N9 just to make a point when it still (barely) falls within the whole "Internet tablet" alongside the 770/N8x0/N9x0's. But I think that if we had to back a horse with regards to this pedigree, I would probably back MeeGo as the successor to Maemo (REAL MeeGo, not that abomination they vomited onto the N9) and probably follow Intel's efforts more closely and start speaking to them about helping to fund the forums in addition to anyone else that would like to buy ads or sponsorship on this forum space and talk with us for press releases, reviews and other more valuable efforts to be a more intelligent site than Nokia allowed it to be.

Just my two cents... (although, if you read all my old posts talking about my expectations and ideas, my two cents over time keeps seeming to pan out as a pretty good investment... just saying! ;) heh)

sjgadsby 2011-07-11 05:31

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1048644)
OMIGOD! What does it say under the screen?

I am shocked--SHOCKED!--to learn that after Nokia announced the 770 Internet Tablet and Reggie created the site on it's account other companies made competing products and used similar terminology in reference to them. You have shaken me to my core, good sir!

danramos 2011-07-11 05:48

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 1048651)
I am shocked--SHOCKED!--to learn that after Nokia announced the 770 Internet Tablet and Reggie created the site on it's account other companies made competing products and used similar terminology in reference to them. You have shaken me to my core, good sir!

I'm equally shocked.. SHOCKED that something Nokia started doing (Internet tablets), everybody else started to do... and do MORE and BETTER over time. Perhaps, just maybe, the moniker has more relevance now that it's being more widely adopted. GASP and MELODRAMA! :)

danramos 2011-07-11 05:58

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1048576)
I would guess that at least 50% of N900 users have ANOTHER modern mobile phone that IS NOT FROM NOKIA!

I'm SHOCKED, I tell you! SHOCKED! ...even at the ones that DON'T have another modern mobile phone! ;)
http://steliq.com/c/lm/4/43/16916208_N900-Android.jpg

Jaffa 2011-07-11 07:18

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1048561)
There is a GIANT Android thread; maybe Jaffa didn't notice. And, ever hear of Nitdroid? Ever notice typing appearing in the Competitors thread?

Yes, I did notice. I also noticed that all the discussions have a common foundation: Maemo and the range of Nokia hardware running Maemo.

Quote:

The world is wide open for a revival of ITT. A site that is loyal to NO ONE but quality. The INDEPENDENT tablet site, where we had tablets before Apple did.
"Independent" means bills.

Quote:

We have a unique chance to become a big power in the future of Internet Tablets. Or we can stay chained to Nokia and a fading Maemo.
I'm interested in your proposal and business case. It'll need to make money, as part of the premise seems to be cutting ties to Nokia and becoming "independent". Seriously, I'll invest cash for a good ROI & plan; and a part of being "a big power in the future of Internet Tablets".

Just make sure it's more than "change the name, and they will come".

To pitch it to the Community Council, it'll need to cover the other services on maemo.org as well (the ones which are more relevant to the developers and end-users of the platform). After all, they're not the TMO Community Council.

danramos 2011-07-11 08:28

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 1048688)
Quote:

Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1048561)
There is a GIANT Android thread; maybe Jaffa didn't notice. And, ever hear of Nitdroid? Ever notice typing appearing in the Competitors thread?

Yes, I did notice. I also noticed that all the discussions have a common foundation: Maemo and the range of Nokia hardware running Maemo.


What?? Where's the Maemo and Nokia hardware running Maemo discussion in threads like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61003 (which I'm sure was the "GIANT Android thread" he's referring to, but one of the many numerous "competitors" threads that don't really discuss Maemo at all). Weird, man. You went off into some weird direction with your answer, as if you were distracted when you meant to answer--and then answered some other question/topic he didn't mention. Did I misinterpret something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 1048688)
"Independent" means bills.

Nokia will be cutting the purse strings anyway... that STILL means bills. Either way, if we open up to a broader set of devices, that open up the possibility of income from perhaps far more responsible sponsors or advertisers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 1048688)
I'm interested in your proposal and business case. It'll need to make money, as part of the premise seems to be cutting ties to Nokia and becoming "independent". Seriously, I'll invest cash for a good ROI & plan; and a part of being "a big power in the future of Internet Tablets".

Just make sure it's more than "change the name, and they will come".

To pitch it to the Community Council, it'll need to cover the other services on maemo.org as well (the ones which are more relevant to the developers and end-users of the platform). After all, they're not the TMO Community Council.

Changing the name is a big part of it--it's an identity change. Check out what I'd said earlier (a few posts ago in this thread).

Jaffa 2011-07-11 08:35

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1048719)
What?? Where's the Maemo and Nokia hardware running Maemo discussion in threads like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61003 [...] Weird, man. You went off into some weird direction with your answer, as if you were distracted when you meant to answer

I suggest you reread my response. My point was a community exists through common values and shared experiences. The discussion of Android in those threads is based on the people's experiences of Maemo and Nokia. Not that all threads are about Maemo & Nokia.

Quote:

Nokia will be cutting the purse strings anyway... that STILL means bills. Either way, if we open up to a broader set of devices, that open up the possibility of income from perhaps far more responsible sponsors or advertisers.
And it's been pointed out that running the forum is one of the smallest parts of that cost.

bergie 2011-07-11 10:28

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 1048281)
Thanks for the comments. All options can be considered by the community, including continuing with maemo.org when formal Nokia support ends after at least one year. Nokia abandoning the maemo trademark and governance over maemo.org can be viewed as an opportunity. Self-funding can be considered for the community - over 1000 euros was provided solely by the community for the Coding Competition. We can try to port maemo to the extent possible. We've already started a post-N900 strategy with the Cordia project, which aims to get as much of open-source maemo on top of MeeGo core.

I think the best approach is to see how the community looks about a year from now. If there are still vibrant efforts (like CSSU) going on then, we would be more than happy to help the community migrate to a new hosting environment.

SD69 2011-07-11 10:45

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 1048688)
I'm interested in your proposal and business case. It'll need to make money, as part of the premise seems to be cutting ties to Nokia and becoming "independent". Seriously, I'll invest cash for a good ROI & plan; and a part of being "a big power in the future of Internet Tablets".

Just make sure it's more than "change the name, and they will come".

To pitch it to the Community Council, it'll need to cover the other services on maemo.org as well (the ones which are more relevant to the developers and end-users of the platform). After all, they're not the TMO Community Council.

This is what I'm interested in as well, although as an open source community I would say "cover expenses" rather than "make money" (and this is probably what Jaffa meant as well). Building the open source software to run a N900 or N8x0 successor as we want is certainly going to take more than a forum. We would need to plan things like budgets, organizational governance, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estel (Post 1048573)
Going back to serious discussion, Maemo/Meego is a mark for me. Sorry, for neophytes, that bought N900 after all fuss with Nokia, Elop, strategy changes and what not, Maemo != Nokia, same for Meego. for me Maemo is Community. In fact, Community that try to have less and less closed source components in devices used today (CSSU etc.), and to have nice core system for future (Meego !=Harmattan - Meego CE with Cordia on top of it? Yup!).

I think that, if/after Nokia cut off, We can do OpenPandora way. Like it or not, we got no better base solution (i mean only open source components, lets let alone all closed parts) than Meego/Maemo. You can't even dream about truly open source device based on Android, not to mention other mobile OS'es. For Meego with mix of Maemo UI, this is at least possible (although require much work).

If You ask few years ago, if Open Office can be 100% independent of Sun, no one would believe. Now we got LibreOffice. I don't see ANY reasons, why Maemo/Meego can't be developed further in open way.

Yes, maybe, but that involves converting maemo.org into a non-profit organization and then running it, which is possible, but goes far beyond a forum. And, can Council do such a thing on their own initiative? I think this is a major step which needs validation by the community membership through an election or some other method.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bergie (Post 1048766)
I think the best approach is to see how the community looks about a year from now. If there are still vibrant efforts (like CSSU) going on then, we would be more than happy to help the community migrate to a new hosting environment.

We would certainly appreciate such cooperation. :) My initial thoughts are that it would take the better part of a year for this all-volunteer community to come to agreement on what the new hosting environment should be and that you should expect inquiries over the next year.

lemmyslender 2011-07-11 14:30

Re: [Council] Council_Update-July_2011
 
@danramos

I'm not saying exclude the N9, in fact I welcome including it. I'm pretty sure you understand where I'm going with that, include more, not less. As you point out, that would be an excellent way to attract more sponsors/money, become more inclusive of the "internet tablet" format.

I'm suggesting that we aggressively look at moving what we can off of Nokia paid servers as soon as possible. If that means the forums (as the most insignificant part per Jaffa) first, then let's do it. Host the mailing lists elsewhere. Move what we can well ahead of any deadlines.

Otherwise, we'll get a notification from Nokia (be it a week, a month, or a quarter) and by the time we finish putting together plans, ROI, etc and find the best solution, maemo.org will have been offline line for a couple months. Not much point trying to get back up and running then.

Or we do as Bergie says and wait and see if anyone is still around in a year.

To paraphrase one of my favorite lines: if you'd only have thought about the problem a little longer, it would have gone away.


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