Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
To:
support@iphhxxxx
CC:
board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org
Date:
2013-02-21 14:14

Renee,

Unfortunately, I am only authorized to review and sign a contract. Because
we will be forwarding our servers to IPHH, the Foundation wants to be sure
that the servers will be returned upon request. Please let me know if it
is possible to forward a contract. If not, then I have to go back to the
Board which will delay everything and I don't want to do that.

Rob






Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
To:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
CC:
support@iphh.net, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-23 22:21

Dear Renee,

Can you please let me know whether or not it is possible for you to forward
a hosting contract? Thanks.

Rob








Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxx>
CC:
support@iphhxxxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-23 22:56

Robert,

we discussed that topic with Falk and Rene, and the main problem is: IPHH
handing out a proper hosting contract ensues IPHH's obligation to pay ~20% VAT
to such contract's nominal value, even when the actual value requested from
HiFo is zero. Obviously no option for IPHH.
OTOH we completely understand that HiFo needs to secure their assets.
IPHH will send a receipt&possession confirmation document to HiFo next week. If
that's not sufficient for HiFo to secure their assets and fulfill legal
requirements, IPHH could send a official contract for server STORAGE for one
year, with a value of whatever you like to pay to make this a real contract
(suggestion: $20 for one year). This would clearly document that the server is
at IPHH and IPHH takes care of it, but HiFo is owner and has full control over
the server.
Please tell us what you think.

cheers
jOERG








Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
To:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
CC:
support@iphh.xxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-24 03:23

On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 4:56 PM, joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>wrote:

> Robert,
>
> we discussed that topic with Falk and Rene, and the main problem is: IPHH
> handing out a proper hosting contract ensues IPHH's obligation to pay ~20%
> VAT
> to such contract's nominal value, even when the actual value requested from
> HiFo is zero. Obviously no option for IPHH.
>

Can HiFO pay the 20% VAT? Would it be about a 100 euros/month?


> OTOH we completely understand that HiFo needs to secure their assets.
> IPHH will send a receipt&possession confirmation document to HiFo next
> week.


What is a "receipt&possession confirmation document"? Is it any kind of
contract? Or does it just confirm delivery of the server? My guess is
Board will probably want a contract before March 1. "next week" isn't
specific. Do you have an idea which day next week the server will be
received so we can sort this out by then?



> If that's not sufficient for HiFo to secure their assets and fulfill legal
> requirements, IPHH could send a official contract for server STORAGE for
> one
> year, with a value of whatever you like to pay to make this a real contract
> (suggestion: $20 for one year). This would clearly document that the
> server is
> at IPHH and IPHH takes care of it, but HiFo is owner and has full control
> over
> the server.
> Please tell us what you think.
>
The only instruction and authority I had was for a hosting contract. The
alternatives have to go to the Board. Personally, I want to see the
documents and then I'll say what I think of them.

Rob






Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxx>
CC:
support@iphh.xxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-24 03:31

2013-02-23 22:40:11] <DocScrutinizer05> werd empfangsbescheinigung und
moeglichen einlagerungsvertrag anbieten
[2013-02-23 22:40:34] <warfare> Empfangs & Aushändigungsbestätigung kriegt er
nächste Woche.
[2013-02-23 22:40:40] <DocScrutinizer05> ersteres unconditional fuer naechstze
woche
[2013-02-23 22:40:45] <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
[2013-02-23 22:41:14] <warfare> Sobald ich wieder im Büro bin, da hab ich nen
Scanner.

[translation:]
He'll receive a receipt&hand-over confirmation next week
[...]
As soon as I'm in my office again, there's a scanner
[afaik Falk will be in his office on Tuesday, as on Monday he has a day off for
working on our server]

More tomorrow
/j




Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
CC:
support@iphh.xxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-24 03:56

On a sidenote: this is *not* about any *contract* , this is a *donation* of
free service instead of money, on a totally voluntary basis without anything
they demand for it.
You want to reject it because of missing contract papers wrapped around it?
You demand a contract from a donor? Would you do same for money donations?
For maintainers donating their manpower and time? Do you think any donor would
be willing to sign a contract that possibly puts them into a position where
you could sue them for not fulfilling it? Server STORAGE is the best "contract"
you might get from any donor offering free CoLo hosting, since bylaws for CoLo
contracts include warranted things like quality of service and whatnot that
nobody can or will guarantee for a donation. Otherwise they would risk to be
liable for e.g. any downtime, and HiFo suing them for compensation of damage
caused by such downtime. I don't see this happen for any CoLo donor.

BTW the guys at IPHH are benevolent technicians and geeks and maemo fans, to
them paperwork is a horror I guess. I'm afraid we risk to scare and annoy
them to a point where they just take our server and throw it on the street and
inform us to pick it up there whenever we like to - just my 2 cents. HiFo
approach to those guys is perceived as a rather hostile one here.

/j





Re: [IPHH #442659] Re: maemo.org
From:
joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>
CC:
support@iphh.xxx, board@maemo.org, council@maemo.org, falk@xxxxxxx
Date:
2013-02-24 04:18

OOPS, I completely ignored that little detail since it's so completely not of
my world:


On Sun 24 February 2013 03:23:17 robert bauer wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 4:56 PM, joerg Reisenweber
<joerg@openmoko.org>wrote:
> > Robert,
> >
> > we discussed that topic with Falk and Rene, and the main problem is: IPHH
> > handing out a proper hosting contract ensues IPHH's obligation to pay
> > ~20% VAT
> > to such contract's nominal value, even when the actual value requested
> > from HiFo is zero. Obviously no option for IPHH.
>
> Can HiFO pay the 20% VAT? Would it be about a 100 euros/month?
>
> > OTOH we completely understand that HiFo needs to secure their assets.
> > IPHH will send a receipt&possession confirmation document to HiFo next
> > week.
>
> What is a "receipt&possession confirmation document"? Is it any kind of
> contract? Or does it just confirm delivery of the server? My guess is
> Board will probably want a contract before March 1. "next week" isn't
> specific. Do you have an idea which day next week the server will be
> received so we can sort this out by then?

The server already GOT DELIVERED on Wednesday, got mounted to rack on Friday,
and Friday and today Falk installed the system and virtualization (XEN) to
both blades, and also the firewalls. Again: please refer to
http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_C...Infrastructure
which is supposed to have all the details rather up-to-date.
We can't afford HiFo acting and taking decisions on obsolete and inaccurate
facts. All the correct info is out there for you to look up.


/j





Re: hosting agreement
From:
robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxx>
To:
board@maemo.org, support@iphh.net, Falk Stern <falk@fourecks.de>
CC:
council@maemo.org, joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
Date:
2013-02-24 13:54

sigh... Without a hosting contract from IPHH, the Board will need to
decide next step(s). Here again is the Board's clear decision that setting
up the server at IPHH was dependent on a hosting contract

- OSUOSL <http://osuosl.org>: Very reputable.– No contact in last week.
- IPHH <http://www.iphh.net>: Very reasonable terms (free).
- Will send contract soon.
- Rob to execute contract if the terms (especially about the hardware)
are agreeable.
- If IPHH’s contract is good, we will go with them.

Hosting contract will be needed in regards to collocated contract.

http://hildonfoundation.org/board-mi...ruary-17-2013/


*To Board,
*I attempted to execute the hosting contract with IPHH, but that is not
available. I had no direct contact with IPHH other than two emails with
Renee at support@iphh.net on which you have been copied. I do not know
firsthand whether or not they regard the request for a contract in the
negative manner that Joerg has described. I did have contact last week
from the Director at OSUOSL, who received technical details from Michael
and Alexander of maemo council and who indicated he will send a contract
soon. This is my report on the task that I was given above, which I regard
as being at an end.

*To Renee/support@iphh.xxx,
*Please send whatever paperwork you wish. And please excuse the
inconvenience if you were lead to believe that the situation was any
different than what is indicated above. We appreciate your support and
someone from Hildon Foundation will contact you with respect to our servers
once we have reviewed your paperwork. Thank you again for your patience
and kind offer of assistance.
*
**To Falk,
I suggest you not risk your time setting up the server at IPHH until this
gets resolved. Despite what Joerg may have done and will do, the Board
still has a decision to make and may decide to have hosting out of OSUOSL.
*

On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 9:56 PM, joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>wrote:

> On a sidenote: this is not about any *contract*, this is a donation of
> free service instead of money, on a totally voluntary basis without






=====================================
comment: *I* haven't decided anything! I suggested and I forwarded. Seems something is going terribly wrong here, up to you to decide what.