Sorry, I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I honestly do not understand your logic here at all.

Why can you not compare Meego Harmattan with Android 4.0.

At the end of the day if N9 is the best that Nokia offer for Maemo/Meego users than thats that. It is perfectly fair to compare this to the latest versions of Android, iOS etc.

Especially when Android 4.0 and iOS 5 were both released last year around the months of October/November, similar time to the release of Meggo Harmattan.

To say it is not fair on Nokia is actually ridiculous, Nokia has been in the smartphone business a lot longer than Google has, so if google can release a competitive OS to contend with iOS than so can Nokia.

It is actually not fair on us the Nokia consumers that Nokia, despite its many opportunities and loyal customers, refuses to release a competitive device for the mass market.

And I really mean for the mass market, not for a small developer community. However, I do not see any reason why they would need to choose.

Again take the S2 as an example, appeals to the mass market and also appeals to the developer community, in fact has the largest developer community over any other Android Device or any other smartphone, period.

Nokia could do the same and release one mega device, or even two variations like they did with the N9/N950, one should have been focused on the mass market and the other for development. Which I guess was the intention but they never followed through.

The fact is, smartphone technology both in terms of hardware and software is so rapidly changing that the consumer demand for improvements seems insatiable. Any real smartphone manufacturer that desires to actually survive in this business needs to adapt to these changes and regularly release devices to suit them, even if they are not the best, they should at least be considered by the mass market as suitable alternatives.

Take Sony for example, they have recently acquired Ericcson and rebranded the phone to be a complete Sony device, to bring it up to the levels of other devices released by Sony. Now compare the new Sony Xperia S, P U and Ion with the Sony Ericcson Xperia range released last year. You will notice a huge difference in build quality, hardware and software.

Furthermore, they didn't just make the typical improvements, they added features that are unique to their own company. For example Playstation Certified Games, PS Store and PS Suite are huge additions to the new Sony Smartphones and the fact that all future Sony phones will contain these features is a welcome change. They have also incorporated the entire Sony Entertain Network and all of its features, including Music Unlimited and Video Unlimited to allow audio/video downloads and streams straight to your device. This will be a huge contender for the iTunes crown, and not just compete with smartphones.

Now I am not saying Sony will be the best smartphone manufacturer, only time will tell, but at least they have made significant announcements and actually realized those changes, instead of focusing just on heavily advertising their device (which they are also doing), they have actually improved it.

Now I don't want to go on about Sony, as this thread is not about them, but the point I am trying to make was Sony identified the flaws in their own company and took the necessary steps required to correct the problems, not make them worse. They have literally launched a full scale assault on Apple and Samsung and although they cannot yet compete realisitcally, if they follow through with this, they will be considered a serious contender soon enough.

I see no reason why Nokia could not do the same, I mean Nokia has some of the best desingers for its phones, it has some of the most unique and attractive devices, take the N9 for example. It also is known for its quality hardware. Why not stick with the trend and introduce the lastest hardware in the N9 or future phones. Why not improve the software to meet mass market demands as well as developer demands.

Samsung have done this, Sony are doing this, Nokia is still a giant, granted not as huge as before, but they have the resources to do this with ease.

Joining Windows/Microsoft was a huge mistake, but they have made that bed now, might as well sleep in it. If they have to be partnered with Windows thats fine, but at least force Windows to improve its OS that is aimed at the mass market. I mean any idiot can see how ugly and basic the home screen looks compared to iOS and Android, and how cluttered it gets when you start adding more apps to it.

This is a huge design flaw that I noticed over a year ago, how could they have missed it.

It's wrong to say that we are not being fair on Nokia by comparing the N9 or the Lumia 800 with SGS2. By rights, the SGS2 is the older device. And it is not our fault that Nokia chooses to release its later devices with outdated hardware or refuses to support Meego Harmattan which could have been the making of Nokia, instead goes with Windows and literally allows MS to kill off the N9, its own device.

This is Nokia not being fair on us, not the other way around.

Furthermore, as much as we all hate it, the iOS software and iPhone have been hugely successful from late 2007/early 2008 till early 2011 until Samsung pretty much stole the show.

Yes iOS is hugely restrictive, mostly closed source and cannot do even the simplest of things without the need of a jailbreak, yet despite all of that its a market leader for so many years.

Why? Because its consumers are blind? Yes maybe so, but not just that, mostly because Apple actually identified a mass market demand and then supplied it. So yes it is such a restrictive OS but it is also very polished, very attractive and appealing, it satisfied the mass market demand so people bought it despite its huge restrictions.

It is ignorant to say that Apple sucks because it has been a mass market success. I do agree that Apple lacks real vision which is why it is so restrictive in the first place. However if Apple had realized this serious design flaw and adapted to this change, they would not have the heat that Android is bringing to them. Yet they, like Nokia, release the same or similar devices with minor OS/hardware improvements year after year.

This is the sole reason that Android exists today, because of the flaws in Apple's OS. Google identified these flaws and released its answer. Do you think it is any coincidence that Google decide to release a fully open OS that they want multiple smartphone manufacturers to use? They knew what Apples flaws were, its restrictive and closed source OS and the fact that it is only available on one highend smartphone.

So google release a fully open system available on a variety of different smarphones of all prices ranges and multiple manufacturers, gaining them entry into every aspect of the smartphone market.

These flaws with Apple were present for many years, and if Google a smartphone novice could identify them and release a real solution, then I do not see why Nokia could not have done the same, having been in the game a lot longer.

The fact is Nokia dropped the ball and its best today is the N9, so it is perfectly fair to compare the best that Nokia has to offer to the SGS2 as it is the best Samsung has to offer.

And as mentioned, in fact the SGS2 is the older device, the N9 is months newer. It is no fault of ours that Nokia chose to put outdated hardware in the newer N9. That's a mistake of Nokia and they chose to do so.

For example, if a new Samsung 50" TV launched in 2012 had the same specs/display quality etc. as a Sony 50" TV launched in 2010, and Sony's 2012 TV launches destroyed Samsung TVs in every hardware respect is that Sony's fault or Samsung's?

Would you then say it is unfair on Samsung to compare Sony's 2012 TVs with Samsungs ones? At the end of the day, technology in 2012 can only be compared to technology in 2012, that is a fair comparison.

It is unfair on Sony if you compare it's 2010 TV with Samsungs 2012 ones, just as it is unfair on Samsung to compare its 2010 phone with Nokia's 2011 one.

Both Samsung and Nokia released their flagship phones in 2011, Samsung was months older but had better hardware in every way.

The N9/Lumia 800 were launched months later and already had outdated hardware, this is Nokia's fault and there is nothing unfair about the comparison. That's the whole point of competition, they should have launched a competitive device because people will compare and buy the better specs/hardware that is a huge factor. So is design of the device and design of the OS.

I mean its the N9's design that made me buy it a few weeks ago even though I clearly prefer the SGS2. Why? Because SGS2 dropped the ball with its ugly design, N9 is infinitely better so I bought it.

Nokia is making these mistakes with its hardware and OS. They should release a Maemo6 or new version of Meego Harmattan and aim it for the mass market as well as developers. Or get on MS's *** to significantly improve the Windows OS if that's is their paltform of choice. And they definitely need to release competitive hardware in their devices. Beautiful design alone will not save them.

Furthermore, with the success of Android which were clear, they could have jumped to that platform (I personally disagree with them jumping ship) but at least with Android they could have reached profitability. To choose Windows OS when Android was clearly available made no sense at all.

But that is another topic in its own right. The point of my post is to clarify that it is absolutlely fair for us to compare the hardware in the N9 with the hardware in the SGS2, just because the N9's 2011 hardware matches that of the SGS1 launched in 2010 doesn't mean we're being unfair to Nokia by comparing it to the SGS2, it means Nokia is being unfair on us, its loyal customers by releasing hardware in late 2011 that is already outdated by phones that were released earlier in that same year.

They clearly have the information available to see what competitors are doing, they should at least aim to do the same or better, not worse, they have the resources still to do this. They should identify their flaws and improve upon them, not hope that they will go unnoticed if they keep spending money on advertisements.

Bottom line: SGS2 from a developers point of view has a much larger developement community, in fact the largest of all smartphones. It has custom ROMs, kernels, Mods, Tweaks, UI enhancements, audio enhancements, plus many other developement features available today, which are current and updated in time to coincide with todays demands and technology and its superior hardware is a huge bonus for developers, it largely lifts the hardware limitations and issues presented to developers on the N9.


The SGS2 is not an outdated phone with outdated software and outdated hardware specs, desptie being the much older device compared to the N9. (6 months older in smartphone life is actually a very long time for the competition to release something that is hardware wise at least on the same level, if not better)


So I think we're being very fair in the actual comparisons of hardware that we have made. Ultimately it comes down to personal preferances and is a matter of choice which phone you should use. Go with the one that appeals to you, whether its design that you like or something else.

I will not say the SGS2 is a better smartphone than the N9 for end users, at that varies from user to user.

But I will say it is a much better device for development purposes based on the requirements that the OP has mentioned. These facts speak for themselves