I need some help.

I have been torn for a while now on what my next PDA would be. I am disillusioned with Palm, and I do not like WinCE, so that pretty well leads me to a Linux handheld, either a Zaurus or 770. Now I was content for a while to wait and see how well the 770 matures, but my last handheld grew legs and walked away, damn it!, so I guess it is time to make a choice.

I primarily use my handhelds for ebook reading and offline web. I used to do a fair amount of writing as well, but gave that up when my great subnotebook, a Psion Series 7, went belly-up -- though I would like to have the chance again. The Zaurus C1000 with Cacko seems the natural choice, about the same price ($385 new), pretty good thumb board, and it can read my existing offline web files (iSilo) with a program called OpieReader. Though it is not supported in the US, I have a history with unsupported devices (Handera 330, Psion, and the one I lost was a Tapwave Zodiac), and as long as they have the functions and software I want, I am good.

Still, I want to make an informed decision. I did try to see a 770 at my local CompUSA, but the manager says they can't keep them on the shelves, and has sold his demo machine twice, so he doesn't bother with one now. I know that I can get much of what I want on a 770, moving to Plucker should not be difficult and some people are using keybards with theirs, but none of it sounds straight-forward: Getting a keyboard to work seems cumbersome, and the whole software install process sounds kludgy from what I am seeing on the boards. I know my way around a CLI, but I prefer a GUI and this will be my first long-term exposure to Linux.

So, for those of you that made the choice, why should I take the 770 over the Zaurus? Besides the built-in wifi (which would be nice around the house, but useless otherwise, and I already couch-browse with my iBook), what would I be giving up if I choose the Zaurus? Why is the 770 a better machine? Would some of you choose the Zaurus?

Thanks for the help and advice,
Jack

Having got a Series 7 sat next to me (although upgraded with a netBook personality ROM), I was hoping that my 770 would replace it for me.

It has.

A Zaurus also appealed to me, however the keyboard is (apparently) nowhere near the standard of a Psion S5 or S7 one and so being able to splash out on a Bluetooth keyboard such as the Stowaway meant I had the best of both worlds: a more portable device without a keyboard and the power of portable writing system when necessary.

The Z currently has more s/w and a thriving open source development for its OS (AFAICT), however the 770 must score points for having its OS development still being done by the manufacturer.

The only disappointments for me from coming from my Psion so far are: the lower resolution, but larger, screen of the Psion often meant *more* information could be got on screen than on the 770. But then improved layouts on the 770 and a configurable default font size would fix that.

The biggest thing is the lack of anything which compares with EPOC Agenda - but GPE-Calendar is getting better, is being developed, and the developers are open to suggestions which make it more like Agenda :-)

HTH,

Andrew

Having been a part of the Zaurus community for over a year, I would like to impart my slightly informed opinion about development.

Sharp isn't doing squat to help advance the devices. They release it and then wash their hands of it. That puts a bad taste in my mouth. No official firmware updates. No official software updates.

There are a bunch of different Zauruses. C760, C860, 1000, 3000, 3100, and 6000. Each has slightly different features and performance, like RAM, some chipset differences, etc. What this means is that the development community is fairly splintered in what they support and what they're developing for. Many programs are interchangeable between models, but information about what is sketchy, and figuring it out on your own is a slow, painful process.

I am a UNIX person. I'm not a C/C++ developer, but I'm a user, and I've been writing shell scripts and Perl and using UNIX since the late 80's. I have compiled my own Linux kernels for PCs, albeit with a lot of documentation and some trial and error.

That being said, I was very confused by the software choices and development environment on the Zaurus. I was able to compile simple applications ("Hello world!") but when I had a problem, I was basically not helped. (Caveat; I had a 6000; not one of the latest models; 1000, 3000, and 3100 have come out since then. However there are one or two people who still develop on the 6000.)

The various Zaurus models are great, but browse the software respositories first because new apps getting ported is slow to happen. If the software doesn't exist now, and you're not the type of person to build a development system and crosscompile your own apps, don't expect someone to port or recompile the app you want for your machine because you ask. The community is on the whole a "do it yourself" community. When you ask them where a certain app is, and can someone port it for you, the inevitable response is: "do it yourself."

The Zaurus 6000 has a beautiful display that was a joy to use as an ebook reader. The 770's display is not quite so good for bright images, but makes an even better book reader than the 6000 because it's smaller, thinner, lighter, and higher resolution.

I predict that the 770 community will end up developing more apps eventually as the number of developers comfortable with the device increases and the firmware/software from Nokia tightens up.

I couldn't really see using the 770 as a writing tool, but it would be possible if the display were set up comfortably and you had a decent foldup keyboard. If I were serious about writing on the go and I made a living doing it, I'd get a lightweight laptop, like one of those tiny Sony models, U101 or whatever. They're like $2,000 but, like I said... if I made a living that way.

Well, as a data point, I've been a Zaurus SL-C3000 owner for about a year, and had two 770's until last week.

I posted more details in other threads, but what it eventually came down to was that the quality of the 770 hardware just wasn't up to par, particularly the atrocious LCD backlighting. The Z is a *much* nicer device when you need to look at the screen for long periods of time. I had to go through half a dozen 770's at CompUSA before I found one that had even a remotely acceptable screen.

The second big problem is that the 64MB of memory that comes with the 770 is just too little for the applications that come with it. Once you open a complex web page, the bookmarks page, and the newsreader, the browser starts bogging down, and often just crashes. The Z's, while they have the same amount of memory, have a much lighter-weight GUI and can use swap far more easily. So, I have a webserver running all the time on my Z ( to use a Wiki on it ), browser, newsreader, streaming podcasts, etc, and it doesn't miss a beat. I have never, ever, in a year of using the Z, had a crash. The 770, on the other hand, would do it at least once per session while I was using them.

The third big issue is that the 770's power management is just awful. You can leave the Z sitting in standby for a month - literally - and then it will power on instantly and you can start using it. The 770 is rated for 4 days of standby, and in my experience, that's optimistic. I had to charge it every night, just to be sure to have enough power for the next day. You have the option of turning the 770 completely off, but then you need to wait about a minute for it to boot. Pretty much negating the point of the device, if you ask me.

The last major issue - though one that will probably be less so over time - is the huge amount of software that will run on the Z, as compared with the 770. You want email apps? Pick from half a dozen or more. ( Note: The email app that comes with the 770 is essentially useless for IMAP email servers - it can't handle more than the Inbox folder, which is.... bizarre, at best, for a released product. ) You want PIM applications? There's a bunch that are quite useful. You want silly, time-wasting games? There's a ton. ;-)

What does the 770 do well? The browser - when it's not crashing from lack of memory - renders just about any pages you can throw at it almost perfectly. The form factor is very nice, and would be even more so with a few little tweaks. The built-in WiFi/Bluetooth is *heaven* - with the Z you need to purchase CF cards for both. The Maemo UI is more polished, as a consumer product, than the Z.

But, in the end, I took the 770's back, in hopes that perhaps the next revision would fix the numerous deficiencies in both the software and the hardware. They're close.... but they're not a Zaurus. ;-)

770 is not a PIM / PDA. If you are looking for that functionality you will be disappointed with its current software load.

It has a good bookreader and excellent browsing capabilities.

It simply is not a mature platform yet. Palm has 10 years and 20,000 application headstart. Even the Zaurus has had significant development time.

But I think that Nokia has the key ingredients right... decent hardware specs, nice form factor, as open source as you can get, post delivery support from the factory.

I predict that the 770 will be as functional as any mobile platform within 6 months.
David

Huh! I think you are pretty optimistic. Developing a good PIM suite I would figure takes major effort for years, and there are still many issues in this field. Add to that addressing various other issues (cpu, RAM, lack of keyboard) and you will see that we are still a bit away from a truely competitive platform.

the GPE-pim suite has been in development for years, *if* nokia decides to make a PDA out of this thing then there is already a nice headstart. heck, it's better than what comes with PocketPC, so long as you can a while longer for sync

Thank you everyone for the replies and info!

aflegg:
Man, I miss my Series 7, and I too had the netBook personality module - sweet!

Supergeek:
I can see a bit of what you are talking about with the splintering of the Zaurus developments, but that is one of the reasons I am looking at the c860 and c1000, they both run the software I want.

richm:
You touch upon one of my major concerns (standby and battery life), and I appreciate your experience with buying a 770.

djs_tx:
I agree about the maturity of the platform, as I said I originally intended to put off any decision until I could see more progress. I don't think I'll be waiting long enough for that to happen now, though, not now that I don't have any handheld.

varis and chrwei:
While I like a good PIM, it has not been one of my major concerns. A basic address book covers me pretty well, which sounds like about all I can expect of the 770 at the moment. Unfortunately I will need a bit more in the near future, I am just finding out. Most of my usage will continue to be ebook reading, but by this summer I will need a good solid appointment manager, and the inability of the 770 to wake and sound off for an alarm pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin.

Thanks again to everyone. With the hints coming about the follow-up product, I do wish I had the time to wait. At the moment though, and assuming the money comes together, I think I will be looking for a good deal on a Zaurus.

Jack

I have to say I find the 770 disappointing.

First let me state that I love the concept, and am not disappointed with the build quality or even the hardware memory/speed that much. Unfortunately, I am also a blackberry user, and the 770 isn't the blackberry replacement I was hoping for.

Data entry is painful- the virtual keyboard is slow, and the handwriting recognition is disappointing. (I know there are patent issues with graffiti, but couldn't the handwriting recognition support plugins for one-stroke characters- specifically shift-mode prefixes?)

I'll keep my 770, but I will still have to get a new blackberry.

If Nokia ever goes for a 771 in a thumboard form factor like the blackberry, I would jump at it!

This is being worked on by Nokia with a very sensible alarm infrastructure, which I hope'll appear in IT-2006. Then it'll be ideal as a PDA.

Cheers,

Andrew