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#391
You're not wrong, if You keep in mind that running hildon-home and derrivatives, with it's dependencies, will allow most (?) applications written for maemo, to work flawlessly in CordiaTAB, keeping full Meego possibilities, mainstream kernel etc.

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Also, important thing - if not most important - is that Meego is open source "core" of system, where You also need user interface. Swipe UI in N9 is closed source. With Cordia, we have open source core with open source (as long as we don't need to run any closed source parts of Maemo on Cordia) UI.

With CordiaTAB, You can add fully compliant, quite modern hardware (with such missed things as HDMI output, multitouch, etc), that we can order without big companies involved.

Also, keep in mind, that *if* CordiaTAB project will suceed, next incarnation - after 2-3 years - is probably going to be device designed by us, so we can finally achieve goal of focusing on software, with hardware made especially for it (not grabbing every compliant hardware, that big companies are throwing @ us, no matter how flawed - like with N9 or N950).
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#392
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
You're not wrong, if You keep in mind that running hildon-home and derrivatives, with it's dependencies, will allow most (?) applications written for maemo, to work flawlessly in CordiaTAB, keeping full Meego possibilities, mainstream kernel etc.

If I'm wrong, please correct me.
Sadly I will have to correct you.. the modified Hildon GTK+ will not transplant well to modern systems and there is a very high likelihood that all apps will have to be modded to run on top of stock GTK+ and Hildon. Stskeeps said once that MaemoPad had to be significantly modded.

There is significant amount of work to be done to replicate the Hildon stack. Just look at how much trouble the Mer project had. They even used a Hildon GTK+ (breaking most other gtk stuff and making it stuck at ancient gtk version)

I'm hearing around that MeeGo Community Edition is looking to transfer more governance roles to community. Maybe that is a direction people/maemo.org/maemo.org council should consider? Comes with people /team responsible to maintain the difficult hardware adaptation parts for N900/N950 and a basic working set of functionality/UI and already working app stack.

What are your thoughts?
 

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#393
Originally Posted by tekki View Post
Sadly I will have to correct you.. the modified Hildon GTK+ will not transplant well to modern systems and there is a very high likelihood that all apps will have to be modded to run on top of stock GTK+ and Hildon. Stskeeps said once that MaemoPad had to be significantly modded.

There is significant amount of work to be done to replicate the Hildon stack. Just look at how much trouble the Mer project had. They even used a Hildon GTK+ (breaking most other gtk stuff and making it stuck at ancient gtk version)

I'm hearing around that MeeGo Community Edition is looking to transfer more governance roles to community. Maybe that is a direction people/maemo.org/maemo.org council should consider? Comes with people /team responsible to maintain the difficult hardware adaptation parts for N900/N950 and a basic working set of functionality/UI and already working app stack.

What are your thoughts?
If we follow the legacy maemo path, we have somehow to harmonise with the official gtk/gnome project.

But do we really want to be Maemo devices hardware adaptation team for Meego, and how feasible that is given the relatively modest processing power of maemo devices, or should we follow our own path unrestricted by other entities?

More importantly:
Did Council meeting with Nokia occur?
What are the results?
 

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#394
Originally Posted by tekki View Post
I'm hearing around that MeeGo Community Edition is looking to transfer more governance roles to community. Maybe that is a direction people/maemo.org/maemo.org council should consider?
Yep. pretty much except one has to understand that the governance model in MeeGo is based on meritocracy and people who *do* things tend to get recognized. For example: Stskeeps worked his *** off to enable MeeGo on ARM boards and now he's the MeeGo arm maintainer. Also Texrat worked hard on defining the MeeGo developer device loan program and now he's the man coordinating it (not in a sense that you can get devices from him). This is how one gets into "governance" roles in MeeGo.

Originally Posted by tekki View Post
Comes with people /team responsible to maintain the difficult hardware adaptation parts for N900/N950 and a basic working set of functionality/UI and already working app stack.
This is what the N9x0 hardware adaptation team/Community Edition people are doing. Contributors are more than welcome.
 

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#395
Originally Posted by timoph View Post
Yep. pretty much except one has to understand that the governance model in MeeGo is based on meritocracy and people who *do* things tend to get recognized. For example: Stskeeps worked his *** off to enable MeeGo on ARM boards and now he's the MeeGo arm maintainer.
True, let us not forget the now abandoned Mer efforts before Meego happened.

But still, maemo.org is not part of the meego.

I mean, it is in a certain way, since most of the developers were recruited from maemo.org. So everyone who are able to run meego, have no issues with that.

Bear in mind that In a sense, the things that texrat and stskeeps have done for meego, are irrelevant for the fate of maemo.org. It seems the
N900 might get successful hardware adaptation for meego, which means n900 does not belong to maemo.org anymore. What about abandoned 770, N800, N810?

We have reached the point where there are possibly two branches:
  1. Meego branch
  2. Still undefined branch for legacy device.

The future of the first one is not threatened at the moment. The second one is uncertain.

Last edited by momcilo; 08-10-2011 at 10:15 AM.
 

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#396
Originally Posted by tekki View Post
Sadly I will have to correct you.. the modified Hildon GTK+ will not transplant well to modern systems and there is a very high likelihood that all apps will have to be modded to run on top of stock GTK+ and Hildon. Stskeeps said once that MaemoPad had to be significantly modded.

There is significant amount of work to be done to replicate the Hildon stack. Just look at how much trouble the Mer project had. They even used a Hildon GTK+ (breaking most other gtk stuff and making it stuck at ancient gtk version)
This was the main point I was referring to. HW is useless without SW, but SW cannot exist with no HW! I agree on the fact we have to concentrate on SW but without HW to play with everything we can do is without REAL goals.
So again, which is the direction we should go? The fact we have an HW adaption layer for the 900 is a good step for keeping devices up to date as much as possible. Are we ready to abandon our 770 and 800/810? I think Meego is the the right path to follow now (and a project like Cordia can keep going Hildon desktop for people who likes its interface), but I am reluctant to move on Meego.org (only a lurker there). I - as already said - have no enough skills to take a good decision because I cannot master 'the big picture', but I am ready to follow some (good) suggestion when they arrive and to support a path leading to a 'free' HW coupled with 'free' SW. I mean, not ideologically, but an HW with wich I decide want I want to do and WHEN to dismiss it, not the corp. who produced it.
Again, I am ready to go to a CordiaTab, but we already saw many 'open' projects to fail miserably because what is needed is something USEFUL and NOW. A nice piece of equipment just for the sake of it is totally useless, I have to browse with it, to make calculus, to fix my appointments, to save contacts and to take notes with. And perhaps to read a (free or paid) book when I have some time or to hear (free or paid - I am an old style man with 500+ vynils and 400+ cds, almost all ripped in .ogg) music with it. I don't care to show it to my friends and to say 'hey, look at it and see how cool is it, isn't it??? Nobody has a tablet like mine...'
No, I need something useful and with which I decide which contact had to be synced with my google contacts. I don't want everything of my life to published on Facebook, I decide what to share and what's mine.
 

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#397
Originally Posted by jurop88 View Post
This was the main point I was referring to. HW is useless without SW, but SW cannot exist with no HW! I agree on the fact we have to concentrate on SW but without HW to play with everything we can do is without REAL goals.
So again, which is the direction we should go? The fact we have an HW adaption layer for the 900 is a good step for keeping devices up to date as much as possible. Are we ready to abandon our 770 and 800/810? I think Meego is the the right path to follow now (and a project like Cordia can keep going Hildon desktop for people who likes its interface), but I am reluctant to move on Meego.org (only a lurker there). I - as already said - have no enough skills to take a good decision because I cannot master 'the big picture', but I am ready to follow some (good) suggestion when they arrive and to support a path leading to a 'free' HW coupled with 'free' SW. I mean, not ideologically, but an HW with wich I decide want I want to do and WHEN to dismiss it, not the corp. who produced it.
Again, I am ready to go to a CordiaTab, but we already saw many 'open' projects to fail miserably because what is needed is something USEFUL and NOW. A nice piece of equipment just for the sake of it is totally useless, I have to browse with it, to make calculus, to fix my appointments, to save contacts and to take notes with. And perhaps to read a (free or paid) book when I have some time or to hear (free or paid - I am an old style man with 500+ vynils and 400+ cds, almost all ripped in .ogg) music with it. I don't care to show it to my friends and to say 'hey, look at it and see how cool is it, isn't it??? Nobody has a tablet like mine...'
No, I need something useful and with which I decide which contact had to be synced with my google contacts. I don't want everything of my life to published on Facebook, I decide what to share and what's mine.
Cordiatab looks like excellent point from the point of hardware openness (this still has to be proven). What ever happens with maemo distribution (translate to meego, or branch on its own), the most critical thing is providing hardware support.

For n900 that is done by stskeeps in the form of closed sourced binaries. That excludes maemo devices 770/N800/N810 pretty much. For maemo devices we might have following choices:
  1. Nokia provides open source drivers or full hardware specification (meego plan A)
  2. Nokia provides binaries through stskeeps as for N900 (meego plan B)
  3. We try to work with what we have, backporting features to kernel and rest of open source pieces in order to maintain binary compatibility with existing binaries
  4. simply let it die, and focus on projects like cordiatab, or any other where manufactorer is willing to provide open specification or OSS drivers.

Last edited by momcilo; 08-10-2011 at 10:15 AM.
 

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#398
Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
Cordiatab looks like excellent point from the point of hardware openness (this still has to be proven). [...]
4 - simply let it die, and focus on projects like cordiatab, or any other where manufactorer is willing to provide open specification or OSS drivers.
As hard as it can be, I am pro following this path. There's a lot of work already done on the software side, let's concentrate now on an open hardware... At least until we have the chance to buy it. Nokia tried to follow this path and had been squashed - and before somebody say something, I have
N770
N800
n900
PCs with W7, Mac and Linux (1 Debian + 1 Ubuntu) OS
XBOX
Nokia stocks (I am thinking to sell them but my loss is currently at 57%)
So it is not simple for me to accept to throw away all this stuff, but in the end I am at the point where I decided to be free. If this decision means to throw away all this stuff, be it!
But I am ready to take such a decision only if I am not alone in it. The other path could be to buy a small mountain shelter, to forget about tecnology and modern society and to live the rest of my days in peace...
 

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#399
Originally Posted by jurop88 View Post
Nokia tried to follow this path and had been squashed - and before somebody say something, I have
Sorry, although I am here for a long time, most of the time I've kept lurking occasionally: who and when has squashed Nokia?

Btw: I still own 770, thinking about repairing my N810, and I've signed up for Cordiatab.

I would prefer option 1, perhaps with addition of simplistic UI that can run nicely on those devices, and higher-end devices for those who would like to have better battery life.

Last edited by momcilo; 08-10-2011 at 11:58 AM.
 
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#400
I wouldn't hold my breath on Nokia providing open source drivers for old devices. Especially if they've licensed the drivers themselves from another company.

But what they have done recently is that they relicensed e.g. BME as redistributable binary in non-commercial use to aid the CE effort.
 

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