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#811
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
[...]
There are three basic options for maemo.org (I've left off "be a general mobile internet device" site as I don't think it's viable):
  • Focusing on Maemo-related devices, developments and hacks. This covers the five steps between 770, through N8x0, N900 and N9(50).
  • Defocus on Maemo-related devices, expand on anything mobile running "mainline" Linux. This covers Maemo (including Harmattan), MeeGo, Tizen, Mer.
  • Focus on Nokia's Linux-based open devices. This is a superset of #1, but leaves the door open for whatever else Nokia might have brewing, if Linux is actually exposed (porting S40 to a Linux kernel doesn't count)

[...]
not visible (i think) is a 1 option...
NOKIA releases more Maemo devices, with or without the "MeeGo" co-label
rather then another Harmattan device, an OS2013 one.
in which case the future of Maemo.org can be pretty much unchanged compared to what it was before the MeeGo related cession
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#812
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
I have difficulty believing that if we have difficulty gaining more than five candidates for the Community Council, that it'll be easier finding people with enough drive, vision, time and skill to run a non-profit legal entity doing what the council does and a whole lot more.
.
Well, IMO you're swapping reason and effect here. From my point of view, we had difficulties to gain more than five candidates, *because* we're not self-governed entity, = Council doesn't have (almost) any real tools, at least in current approach. Even description of "what Council is meant for" are - most of the times - quite "philosophical", instead of practical.

At the same time, negative "emotions" are thrown on Council every time something isn't as it should be - no matter if Council had chance to change that, or not. Thus, no surprise, that not many people want to take up that volunteer role.

The problem is, that You can't be half-virgin, half-pregnant. Either we're self governing ourselves, with all hard work it require, but we *do* have ways of tunneling great potential in Community here (I think every involved person admit, that overall knowledge/expertise amongst Maemo devs is impressive), or much energy is lost due to slow/non-existent momentum due to relying on 3th forces to govern us. Not to mention, that such "forces" currently have big problems of their own, and aren't interested in Maemo "almost" at all.

/Estel
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#813
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
Well, IMO you're swapping reason and effect here. From my point of view, we had difficulties to gain more than five candidates, *because* we're not self-governed entity, = Council doesn't have (almost) any real tools, at least in current approach. Even description of "what Council is meant for" are - most of the times - quite "philosophical", instead of practical.
It's a sound argument, but if there was a league of people waiting to run an empowered self-governing community (and it still isn't clear to me what that is: see later ;-)) where are they?

Having been on the Council and having been the person who came up with the idea, I know what the council can & can't do. There's a lot which can be done; and a lot of it (when done well) is the same drudgerous stuff a legal entity would involve: assigned roles (e.g. chair); regular meetings; careful minuting; openness and transparency.

If there was a league of people waiting to run an empowered self-governing community, where are they in proposing what that is and how it would work? And this needs to be in-depth. It's not a trivial exercise and requires far more documentation, openness, communication and transparency than - frankly - I've ever seen come out of maemo.org (myself included, and before MeeGo finally imploded I wrote this Blueprint).

At the same time, negative "emotions" are thrown on Council every time something isn't as it should be - no matter if Council had chance to change that, or not. Thus, no surprise, that not many people want to take up that volunteer role.
You don't have to tell me. Go and read the vitriolic threads about the Council organising a "takeover" of ITT by maemo.org; when it was ultimately Reggie's decision. Fun times.

The problem is, that You can't be half-virgin, half-pregnant.
Getting pregnant requires someone to step forward and "get things rolling". A wannabe father & mother can't just wait for nine months and go "nope, still not got a baby" ;-)
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#814
I think we've got to the point where we... 100% agree I'm careful about being too optimistic, but considering latest "high pitch" in cooperation, I got strong feeling that we're finally starting to have enough room for utilizing available resources (people's enthusiasm and actual do-work included).

It means, that we can focus on fully using actual potential - at the same time, creating every thing needed for 100% self-governed entity, as a natural (not enforced) process - and, if, at some point, we feel that self-governing would actually do give us benefits "now", we can proceed. It's nice, to have possibility of deciding via meritocratic means of available-resources/room for improvement values, rather than doing it as "critical fix" for actual road-blocker issues.

So, As I've said in other thread - I'm optimistic, and if cooperation is going to look so good as it started to in last (short, but promising) period, there is no need to hurry - haste can be replaced with proper planning and "backstage" preparation.
---

Yet, I'm also convinced that - even in situation of best cooperation - we should keep a backup plan. Considering current financial problems, I can easily imagine situation, where Nokia does radical thing to avoid going bankrupt / just goes bankrupt / is practically bought by other company, which may render current promises (stability of financing, 6 months-before information about further status, etc) "obsolete".

Of course, it's bad case scenario - this bugger was announced to be dead many times before - I'm not expecting it very soon, nor wishing it (someone could say "not anymore "), yet we must count it as possible situation, and get prepared accordingly to actual risk.

/Estel
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#815
In case someone else is waiting for the logs/minutes from the last tuesday's council meeting you can find the raw irc logs here:
http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclo...04-17T18:00:24

As for the actually question for this thread: How is the council <-> community communication done nowadays? for me it seems that is not really happening. Sorry for ranting but IMO one of the council's most important tasks is left undone. namely "making sure that one portion of the community knows what is going on in another". I'm really hoping the next council holds transparency, etc. in high value.
 

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#816
Originally Posted by timoph View Post
In case someone else is waiting for the logs/minutes from the last tuesday's council meeting you can find the raw irc logs here:
http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclo...04-17T18:00:24

As for the actually question for this thread: How is the council <-> community communication done nowadays? for me it seems that is not really happening. Sorry for ranting but IMO one of the council's most important tasks is left undone. namely "making sure that one portion of the community knows what is going on in another". I'm really hoping the next council holds transparency, etc. in high value.
Thanks for posting the log. To be clear, 2/3 of the Council is not even around, including the person who was responsible for running the meetings, logs, etc. I try to answer and communicate things.
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#817
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
Thanks for posting the log. To be clear, 2/3 of the Council is not even around, including the person who was responsible for running the meetings, logs, etc. I try to answer and communicate things.
Yeah, I know. If you need help with getting meeting minutes, etc. done, just ask. At least I could lend a hand every now then (when I don't miss the meeting, etc. )

btw, it would help a lot to get a meeting bot running in the meeting channel. I'm pretty sure we can find someone to run it. Actually if we can't easily find anyone has a bot that we can use I could setup one.

In case someone is not familiar with the meetbot see http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
 

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#818
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...26#post1196626
After reading all of this ,one thing was still in the hoods ,what about after 2012 ( the aftermath ) ?
anyway thanks for the IRC logs ,its great to see y'all working great for community survival .thanks everyone .
 

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#819
Originally Posted by imo View Post
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...26#post1196626
After reading all of this ,one thing was still in the hoods ,what about after 2012 ( the aftermath ) ?
anyway thanks for the IRC logs ,its great to see y'all working great for community survival .thanks everyone .
The way the cycle is setup is that budgets are done in June/July time-frame for the following year. That's historically been how things run, and they continue to run this way. There was also a statement that in general the "default" is to fund the site, and an argument would need to be made to pull funding. Currently there are no voices calling to pull funding, as far as our current contact with Nokia can tell.
 

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#820
I would like to ask when will we have the banner for next CC voting present on TMO? I've asked about it a few days ago and still nothing. This banner could help more people to interest int the community voting and in maemo in generally.
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