Let's talk Nokia stock! - Page 153 - maemo.org

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	qgil	2012-06-16 , 16:09
	Posts: 3,105 \| Thanked: 11,088 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)	#1521

danramos, it is actually not fair to expect that your business related questions to Nokia will be answered to you here in maemo.org. If you have any chance it would be in Nokia Conversations, or better as accredited media asking directly to Nokia spokepersons. But you know that, so why still pushing the few Nokia employees (for how long, nobody knows) here?

My maemo.org work consists of bringing the 2012 Device Program to completion and help finding the best transition for the maemo.org infrastructure funding and ownership. My personal opinions about the Nokia stock are manifested in my 401k investments.

And that's all I have to say in this thread. If you want to discuss productively about maemo.org I'll see you at the on-topic threads.

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Last edited by qgil; 2012-06-16 at 16:11.

szopin	2012-06-16 , 16:55
Posts: 2,076 \| Thanked: 3,268 times \| Joined on Feb 2011	#1522

Originally Posted by qgil

My personal opinions about the Nokia stock are manifested in my 401k investments.

As a in a way spokeperson for Nokia for this board please elaborate. Your 401k is not public information, most likely private/restricted if we speak about classification. If you wanted to insinuate it is all in Nokia stock there will be many to argue/belittle your decision, I value your optimistic pov, with insider insight makes me even more hopeful. Seems to be the only way for maemo to keep being relevant in the future

abill_uk	2012-06-16 , 17:13
Banned \| Posts: 3,412 \| Thanked: 1,043 times \| Joined on Feb 2010	#1523

Originally Posted by szopin

As a in a way spokeperson for Nokia for this board please elaborate. Your 401k is not public information, most likely private/restricted if we speak about classification. If you wanted to insinuate it is all in Nokia stock there will be many to argue/belittle your decision, I value your optimistic pov, with insider insight makes me even more hopeful. Seems to be the only way for maemo to keep being relevant in the future

HA you will never get anything out of him as he was only a front man for Nokia to get everyones hopes up on this community then nothing ever comes of it.

I don't like him i never have because i dislike crap talk and i make no secret of it, he has never done anything real but spout hopes that never happened.

Dan is dreaming i think hahaha but he means well lol.

Rugoz	2012-06-16 , 17:41
Posts: 457 \| Thanked: 600 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#1524

I agree with everything you said except that they don't have many options. There is a WORLD of options they could choose from, even now. They chose the worst of available options, at the worst time, with the worst people, moving to the worst, cheapest locations while choking Nokia's founding homeland and population, with the worst devices (yeah, I said it.. the hardware is getting cheaper, more tacky looking, and more fragile as time has passed), all for what appear to be the worst reasons and results.

Nope, their pipeline is full of wp8 I guess, no other options in the near term, and the near term is critical.

My personal opinions about the Nokia stock are manifested in my 401k investments.

Well nokia is worth more than its market value, so it makes sense to keep them for now.

These blathering, meaningless phrases like 'future disruptions' are so open and fundamentally meaningless that they could mean anything in any context that they might hope to use it in to take credit.

I don't think its possible for nokia to introduce anything disruptive independent of MS in the near term anyway, they don't have the resources to back it.

Although I still have faith that nokia could not have been that stupid if they didn't expect a major shakeup in the industry in a few years. Assuming they were sure to survive until then

	danramos	2012-06-17 , 04:56
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#1525

Originally Posted by qgil

danramos, it is actually not fair to expect that your business related questions to Nokia will be answered to you here in maemo.org. If you have any chance it would be in Nokia Conversations, or better as accredited media asking directly to Nokia spokepersons. But you know that, so why still pushing the few Nokia employees (for how long, nobody knows) here?

Perhaps because I felt it is relevant in this thread. You volunteered the earlier comments to which I had to ask the questions about how they're turning out. It's not fair to pose the points and then quell the questions about them. You know very well that you're effectively directing me to send criticism and questions to /dev/null and it's a subtle way to tell someone to censor themselves. But you know that, right, qgil? So why try so hard to keep the community from asking questions you don't like but that effect them and Maemo's own future? With Nokia grinding on SO HARD with this Microsoft partnership, the dwindling numbers (employees, funding, etc.) will surely effect Maemo.org and other related topics. Questions like "How is that partnership is working out?" seems to be a fair question in this thread. Don't you think so?

Originally Posted by qgil

My maemo.org work consists of bringing the 2012 Device Program to completion and help finding the best transition for the maemo.org infrastructure funding and ownership. My personal opinions about the Nokia stock are manifested in my 401k investments.

Sounds like: closing off ties to the Maemo.org community so they can get stuck with an operating system they can't upgrade against the very open-source that Nokia decided to use. Just the same, good luck. As for the way you worded your sentence about your "personal opinions"--are you implying that your 401K investments are entirely based on Nokia stock? I'm pretty sure you don't want to answer any questions about your personal 401K, so I'm not sure (once again) why you bring it up here as a point of conversation.

Originally Posted by qgil

And that's all I have to say in this thread. If you want to discuss productively about maemo.org I'll see you at the on-topic threads.

I see what you did there with "productively."

Subjective qualifiers so you can avoid the difficult questions about bad decisions Nokia has made? Nice wordplay, corporate-speak.

Originally Posted by gerbick

Waiting for any company to save us is sheer folly. Case in point, Nokia.

Man, I can still remember all the times users here would say, 'I wish it could support xxxxx! Aw well, it's open... Nokia will eventually include support, since Linux supports it!' ...and waiting... and waiting... aaaand then the next device comes out and we're kicked to the curb.

Originally Posted by abill_uk

HA you will never get anything out of him as he was only a front man for Nokia to get everyones hopes up on this community then nothing ever comes of it.

I don't like him i never have because i dislike crap talk and i make no secret of it, he has never done anything real but spout hopes that never happened.

As I understood it, he's not a front-man (I'm assuming you meant a PR guy). I thought he was just another techie at Nokia working with Maemo as an open-source evangelist. I think it might be unfair to label him as nefarious--I just think the company puts the Maemo employees into very unfortunate positions--especially if they liked Maemo. Nokia executives and management never seemed to treat that platform and its employees with much respect.

The community that loves Maemo really should be haranguing Nokia itself about it. I, on the other hand, have no dedication to brand and I seek out whatever platform will give me what I want. At one point, it WAS Maemo and I still think it could have the most potential--far more than Windows Phone will turn out to have. Right now, it appears to be Android that satisfies my needs the best but I'll jump that ship to someone else's platform just as easily as I jumped off of Maemo if I see someone else doing a better job. I get the impression that Nokia doesn't care what customers want and instead decided to declare what customers should love just because they are Nokia. Nah.. I'll just sit over here, shaking my head in disappointment over the wasted potential, and just watch to see if anything interesting happens.

Originally Posted by Rugoz

I don't think its possible for nokia to introduce anything disruptive independent of MS in the near term anyway, they don't have the resources to back it.

But, by qgil's own admission, they do. He kept repeating that nebulous 'future disruptions' phrase and saying something about an abundance of patents. Surely, an abundance of patents is a clear indicator of a company innovating their products. Right?

Originally Posted by Rugoz

Although I still have faith that nokia could not have been that stupid if they didn't expect a major shakeup in the industry in a few years. Assuming they were sure to survive until then

Surely, Nokia couldn't have been that stupid!

FAITH! You gots it!

__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR

	qgil	2012-06-17 , 07:38
	Posts: 3,105 \| Thanked: 11,088 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)	#1526

Originally Posted by danramos

So why try so hard to keep the community from asking questions you don't like but that effect them and Maemo's own future? With Nokia grinding on SO HARD with this Microsoft partnership, the dwindling numbers (employees, funding, etc.) will surely effect Maemo.org and other related topics.

Ok, still one last post here only because you seem to have missed an important detail in this week's announcements:

To support this period of transition, Nokia intends to improve its operating model by significantly reducing its Device & Services operating expenses, substantially reducing its headcount and reducing its factory footprint.

There goes as well the budget for funding maemo.org and paying the salaries of whoever has still a relationship with this community (Qt Project to follow, although there Nokia still keeps the support for the short term while looking for a way forward like a spin-off or the sale of the Qt asset).

It's a decision made. The current situation and future trends of the Nokia stock, Lumia & Asha sales etc will have no influence on this decision.

Therefore you can keep discussing about any present and future Nokia business topics if you want. They won't be directly related anymore with the present and future of maemo.org, though.

If you care about maemo.org more than about Nokia then a good use of your time and intelligence could be put in collaborating on a post-Nokia plan for this community. In the meantime myself, together with other Nokia employees, will continue working these days seeing how long can Nokia still fund the server infrastructure sustaining maemo.org.

See you in the Community forum? Otherwise keep having fun here but don't bother asking me anything in this thread. Thank you for your understanding (I expect it and I mean it).

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Rugoz	2012-06-17 , 08:29
Posts: 457 \| Thanked: 600 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#1527

There goes as well the budget for funding maemo.org and paying the salaries of whoever has still a relationship with this community (Qt Project to follow, although there Nokia still keeps the support for the short term while looking for a way forward like a spin-off or the sale of the Qt asset)

So I assume Qt plays no role in "future disruptions"? Guess its gonna be a pimped web-browser then. I don't understand those people, throwing away all their assets for something that doesn't sell.

God will not be merciful.

P.S. I think for Qt it will be best to gain independence from nokia. That's probably the reason qgil isn't soo unhappy about recent developments

Last edited by Rugoz; 2012-06-17 at 09:53.

	bingomion	2012-06-17 , 09:15
	Posts: 528 \| Thanked: 345 times \| Joined on Aug 2010 @ MLB.AU	#1528

[QUOTE=qgil;1223058]
There goes as well the budget for funding maemo.org and paying the salaries of whoever has still a relationship with this community (Qt Project to follow, although there Nokia still keeps the support for the short term while looking for a way forward like a spin-off or the sale of the Qt asset).

If you care about maemo.org more than about Nokia then a good use of your time and intelligence could be put in collaborating on a post-Nokia plan for this community. In the meantime myself, together with other Nokia employees, will continue working these days seeing how long can Nokia still fund the server infrastructure sustaining maemo.org.

Someone in the forums mentioned that nokia would give the maemo db and website code to the communty for our hosting?

I guest its now or never

Id chip in

	danramos	2012-06-17 , 10:09
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#1529

Originally Posted by qgil

Ok, still one last post here only because you seem to have missed an important detail in this week's announcements:

I apologize for appearing to have missed the important detail but, in my defense, it really didn't help to read that announcement. As I keep pointing out, it reads to me as more business double-speak where there's a coherent string of grammatically-correct English words but they ultimately can mean anything and nothing, and can be interpreted any number of ways. I think that Nokia's PR department seems to excel at streaming out negative news dressed in ambiguous terms that pretend to dress them up as optimism. After a few years of reading them, I think we started to get good at reading between the lines but it's been hard to believe that we're reading it right. Thank you for making it much clearer.

Originally Posted by qgil

Therefore you can keep discussing about any present and future Nokia business topics if you want. They won't be directly related anymore with the present and future of maemo.org, though.

Yyyyyyyyyyup.

Originally Posted by qgil

If you care about maemo.org more than about Nokia then a good use of your time and intelligence could be put in collaborating on a post-Nokia plan for this community. In the meantime myself, together with other Nokia employees, will continue working these days seeing how long can Nokia still fund the server infrastructure sustaining maemo.org.

I hope you realize how silly that seems. We can't even compile new kernels or obtain drivers for these Maemo-based devices and now Nokia has divorced itself from the devices, the customers, the platform and the community. It's pretty much a dead-end. It was probably always guaranteed to be a dead-end the moment it was decided somewhere inside Nokia that Maemo should be open-core software crippled with closed-source dependencies and the software surrounding it to keep it broken to everyone despite claims of openness.

It's just my opinion but I've got more interesting, progressive and future-focused things to think about and take an interest in than Maemo, if this is the case. I really had hoped otherwise but it seems every little hope and possibility is being shot-down every time I think there's a chance for something done right.

Thanks anyway. I will, however, be sure to pass along a far sterner message to anyone considering anything Nokia about the company's history of its poor loyalty to customers and communities (Maemo, MeeGo, Symbian, etc.). I'm sure I'm not the first or only one--the blogosphere, sales metrics and valuation seems to indicate to me that many are already acutely aware. I'm sure the executives will somehow manage to weather out this storm but it certainly would behoove management and shareholders to do their jobs and pay attention to established working business methods along with the metrics and tools. It would seem to me that it would indicate that there is a significant problem developing far worse after Elop took over than during the already poor pre-Microsoft-marriage era.

Originally Posted by qgil

See you in the Community forum? Otherwise keep having fun here but don't bother asking me anything in this thread. Thank you for your understanding (I expect it and I mean it).

I'm not sure there's much to ask without being rhetorical, as I already pointed out. You effectively confirmed much of what I already expected or couldn't believe. Just the same, I'll keep asking questions and making comments, freely and openly to anyone I choose as long as I'm allowed to. Thanks anyway.