mikecomputing's Avatar
mikecomputing is online now mikecomputing
07-07-2012 , 10:50 AM
Posts: 2,209 | Thanked: 2,313 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Sweden
#1771
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Umm... it's just a login page.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85315

 
Lumiaman is offline Lumiaman
07-07-2012 , 01:49 PM
Posts: 435 | Thanked: 424 times | Joined on Feb 2012
#1772
Just bought some more NOKIA at $1.97 good US dollars. I think they will do well with WP8, and that is my bet.
 
danramos's Avatar
danramos is offline danramos
07-07-2012 , 05:54 PM
Posts: 4,632 | Thanked: 5,384 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#1773
Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85315

Well! Now this is kinda hopeful, but with a history of dashed hopes and ruined potential, I'm not holding a lot of optimism just yet. Still.. this is definitely interesting to watch.

Thanks for that post!

Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
Just bought some more NOKIA at $1.97 good US dollars. I think they will do well with WP8, and that is my bet.
But I thought you already said they will do well with Windows Phone 7 back when they burned their platforms and decided to jump onto the Microsoft platform? How are we to believe you now?
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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Galaxy Nexus ("toro", Android 4.1.2, AOKP JB Milestone 1)
Asus Nexus 7 ("grouper", Android 4.2, stock)
 
gerbick's Avatar
gerbick is offline gerbick
07-07-2012 , 06:02 PM
Posts: 5,353 | Thanked: 8,394 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ undecided.
#1774
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
But I thought you already said they will do well with Windows Phone 7 back when they burned their platforms and decided to jump onto the Microsoft platform? How are we to believe you now?
He sounds like Elop. "WP7, ecosystem, it has it. Oh wait, that won't upgrade. So WP8 for the win!"
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gerbick | removethelabels.com | BlackBerry Dev Alpha B [ BB10 ] | Google Nexus 7 [ unrooted ]
 
Cue is offline Cue
07-07-2012 , 10:17 PM
Posts: 839 | Thanked: 814 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#1775
Originally Posted by specc View Post
It doesn't work like that. A big investor set the terms and is often a participant at board level. Who do you took the final decision that Nokia should go all WP? The board. To go WP may even have been the main term for continued investment by the main investers. How the "industry" reacts means nothing, what the stock price becomes means nothing. The only thing that matters is to stay focused and make it happen. Go for the possibilities, the oppurtunities.
I understand that the board make the decisions and that large stakeholders run things. What I don't understand is how an investor is not speculating if they "believe" that it will turn a profit. Still confused by the explanation. Are you explaining primary capital markets? What exactly do you mean by a big investor? How the public (or "industry" as you call it) reacts is of great importance in securing capital. The risk will always be there for the large investors who do the underwriting, or the individual stakeholder with or without privileges. Staying focused and making it happen stops when you run out of money and securing that money is based on risk. Nokia's "Junk status" is in fact a measure of this risk, when it hits BB+ it becomes "speculative grade", when it goes below (which it has done), it means it's high risk, don't invest if you plan to profit with a degree of certainty.

http://www.standardandpoors.com/rati...nd-faqs/en/us/
Last edited by Cue; 07-08-2012 at 06:18 AM.
 
danramos's Avatar
danramos is offline danramos
07-08-2012 , 05:53 AM
Posts: 4,632 | Thanked: 5,384 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#1776
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
He sounds like Elop. "WP7, ecosystem, it has it. Oh wait, that won't upgrade. So WP8 for the win!"
No, really! This time for SURE!
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
--
Galaxy Nexus ("toro", Android 4.1.2, AOKP JB Milestone 1)
Asus Nexus 7 ("grouper", Android 4.2, stock)
 
specc is offline specc
07-08-2012 , 10:25 PM
Posts: 321 | Thanked: 215 times | Joined on Feb 2012
#1777
Originally Posted by Cue View Post
I understand that the board make the decisions and that large stakeholders run things. What I don't understand is how an investor is not speculating if they "believe" that it will turn a profit. Still confused by the explanation. Are you explaining primary capital markets? What exactly do you mean by a big investor? How the public (or "industry" as you call it) reacts is of great importance in securing capital. The risk will always be there for the large investors who do the underwriting, or the individual stakeholder with or without privileges. Staying focused and making it happen stops when you run out of money and securing that money is based on risk. Nokia's "Junk status" is in fact a measure of this risk, when it hits BB+ it becomes "speculative grade", when it goes below (which it has done), it means it's high risk, don't invest if you plan to profit with a degree of certainty.

http://www.standardandpoors.com/rati...nd-faqs/en/us/
You are mixing two things, running/owning a company and investing your money in the stock market. If the main investors at Nokia simply was looking for a place to invest their money, they would be out a long time ago. Clearly they have other objectives. That objective is a genuine one, and it is to make Nokia a healthy company in the mobile industry, a top world wide producer of phones and services.

You can compare it to F1 racing, another multi billion industry. You can bet on the teams (stock market), you can do commercials, media, arrange races. There is a whole lot you can do, and last but not least, you can invest in a team as the main investor, be the financial backbone of a F1 team. Typically they are are car manufacturers, but they can be anything, and several are pure private companies doing nothing but racing. The only reason to do this, is because you have a passion for F1 racing. It's the same thing with the main Nokia investors, they have a passion for the mobile industry, or simply a passion for Nokia. A main investor wouldn't just quit because the team have a few bad seasons, not even if the team is in a steep down hill run, he would commit even more until they manage to turn it around or death is certain.

The private initiative and enterprise is king. The bean counters in the stock market means nothing, they are playing a whole different game.
 
Cue is offline Cue
07-09-2012 , 05:04 AM
Posts: 839 | Thanked: 814 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#1778
Originally Posted by specc View Post
You are mixing two things, running/owning a company and investing your money in the stock market. If the main investors at Nokia simply was looking for a place to invest their money, they would be out a long time ago. Clearly they have other objectives. That objective is a genuine one, and it is to make Nokia a healthy company in the mobile industry, a top world wide producer of phones and services.

You can compare it to F1 racing, another multi billion industry. You can bet on the teams (stock market), you can do commercials, media, arrange races. There is a whole lot you can do, and last but not least, you can invest in a team as the main investor, be the financial backbone of a F1 team. Typically they are are car manufacturers, but they can be anything, and several are pure private companies doing nothing but racing. The only reason to do this, is because you have a passion for F1 racing. It's the same thing with the main Nokia investors, they have a passion for the mobile industry, or simply a passion for Nokia. A main investor wouldn't just quit because the team have a few bad seasons, not even if the team is in a steep down hill run, he would commit even more until they manage to turn it around or death is certain.

The private initiative and enterprise is king. The bean counters in the stock market means nothing, they are playing a whole different game.
Passion and politics, I get that investment isn't always about money. Being one of very few in Europe also helps Nokia.
I don't expect the major stakeholders to give up either if it's their jobs on the line. I didn't mix up the two though, I used the term stakeholder and specifically mentioned earlier "that is if you are in it for the profit". You mentioned them as big investors, not those who own/run the company so I asked you to clarify what you mean by the term "big investor".

Still, for Nokia employees, passion means nothing if you have a costly hobby that somebody else is funding. It's actually mostly the major investors you mention that do not care for "passion". Just look at your own example of F1 if maemo itself wasn't enough. The Jaguar F1 team (no longer exists). Ford was the big investor behind that team. Ford did not want to invest in the Jaguar team anymore because it was costly and they received no direct advertising. The "owners"/employees of that team became Red Bull Racing, its "big investor" changed as did the team name, it was now Red Bull.

If you wish you can get into the philosophy of what "Nokia" actually is. The name? the people behind the product? The big investors? Highly passionate companies do go under every day, or their names or investors may change but clearly the people behind it do not die when the company name does. If that's what you are saying then you are stating the obvious.

Nokia don't even seem passionate to me anyway so I'm not sure why you even mention it. They are clearly a prime example of "profit at any cost" (oxy*****?). Job cuts and killing their own products (maemo/meego) doesn't scream "passion", it screams CFO trying to get out of the red.

Edit: wow, oxystupid censor has gone too far.
Last edited by Cue; 07-09-2012 at 05:08 AM.
 
Rauha is offline Rauha
07-09-2012 , 08:47 AM
Posts: 1,040 | Thanked: 2,607 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Arctic cold of northern .fi
#1779
Nokia shares go below 1.50 euros. On the positive side, they have now started growing lettuce and strawberries on the terraces and roofs of the Nokia House (I kid you not). Strawberries can easily fetch about 4-5€/litre on Helsinki street markets. That should help Elop and his fastly eroding cash supply little bit.
Last edited by Rauha; 07-09-2012 at 08:49 AM.
 
nephridium is offline nephridium
07-09-2012 , 12:14 PM
Posts: 118 | Thanked: 201 times | Joined on Aug 2010
#1780
Apparently with their new management Nokia has "decided to leverage their core competency in rubber boot production to maximize synergy with their new endeavor of cutlivating Fragraria x ananassa for the purpose of entering the lucrative fruit market" - thereby finally hitting Apple where is really hurts .
 
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