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2012-09-08
, 02:56
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Posts: 280 |
Thanked: 136 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
@ Banyuwangi, Indonesia
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#152
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Originally Posted by anyonebutthis
Who the hell is this guy???
bla..blaa....blaa....
__________________
twitter: @fitronarwani @N9Indonesia
twitter: @fitronarwani @N9Indonesia
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to efion For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-09-08
, 04:57
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Posts: 1,539 |
Thanked: 1,604 times |
Joined on Oct 2011
@ With my N9
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#153
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Originally Posted by anyonebutthis
Please remove home screen settings, sell your N9 and leave the community, you're such an ungrateful person. God forbid that a developer wants to get paid for all of his hard work... Disappear Now!
I don't know how much of what I'm experiencing on my device is intended behavior, but there's a bitter taste in my mouth from all of this.
You're pushing an update, said update never completes. At no point is the user notified that there have been changes that require user action, in this case using the Store to do the update.
This application is said to be targetted at more than just maemo.org users, I don't get this.
Then, only because I know about this very forum (and not because of Google - '"home screen settings' 2.0.1 "Download failed"' didn't yield anything), I think of looking up my problem here. Okay, so let's use the Store to update, why not.
Except that now the Store application wants me to enter a payment method.
vesuri, you changed the availability of an application without regard for existing users?
Maybe I was content with the existing application? Maybe I don't need the new features but should still be protected from security flaws in the software you published?
No. You just changed it. Okay, fine. But others get it right. They offer an upgraded application *alongside* the free version that lacks all the stuff you deem worthy of payment.
99 cents is hardly a big deal. But it's not about money. It's about sending a message. What did you choose to convey to me? "If, at some point in the future, I realize I should've asked for more, I'll simply withhold maintenance, disable reinstallation and, uh, *renegotiate*."
So what stops you from saying "You know, $0.99 isn't actually enough, so the next one'll be ${2,5,9}.99 - you already paid in the past? Tough."
I don't even know why I'm complaining since I'm fairly sure you consider everything you did to be completely justified. You could've pulled off everything without the vitriol. I, for one, didn't intend to install crippleware.
__________________
Arie|www.everythingn9.com|Nokia N9 64GB x2|Nokia N950
@everythingn9
Temporary Inception Fix
Times Banned from TMO: 4
Arie|www.everythingn9.com|Nokia N9 64GB x2|Nokia N950
@everythingn9
Temporary Inception Fix
Times Banned from TMO: 4
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Arie For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-09-08
, 07:08
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Posts: 498 |
Thanked: 836 times |
Joined on Jun 2012
@ Finland
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#154
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Originally Posted by anyonebutthis
I don't know how much of what I'm experiencing on my device is intended behavior, but there's a bitter taste in my mouth from all of this.
You're pushing an update, said update never completes. At no point is the user notified that there have been changes that require user action, in this case using the Store to do the update.
This application is said to be targetted at more than just maemo.org users, I don't get this.
Then, only because I know about this very forum (and not because of Google - '"home screen settings' 2.0.1 "Download failed"' didn't yield anything), I think of looking up my problem here. Okay, so let's use the Store to update, why not.
Except that now the Store application wants me to enter a payment method.
vesuri, you changed the availability of an application without regard for existing users?
Maybe I was content with the existing application? Maybe I don't need the new features but should still be protected from security flaws in the software you published?
No. You just changed it. Okay, fine. But others get it right. They offer an upgraded application *alongside* the free version that lacks all the stuff you deem worthy of payment.
99 cents is hardly a big deal. But it's not about money. It's about sending a message. What did you choose to convey to me? "If, at some point in the future, I realize I should've asked for more, I'll simply withhold maintenance, disable reinstallation and, uh, *renegotiate*."
So what stops you from saying "You know, $0.99 isn't actually enough, so the next one'll be ${2,5,9}.99 - you already paid in the past? Tough."
I don't even know why I'm complaining since I'm fairly sure you consider everything you did to be completely justified. You could've pulled off everything without the vitriol. I, for one, didn't intend to install crippleware.
What the hell???? Where do these people come from?
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2012-09-08
, 13:45
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Posts: 88 |
Thanked: 38 times |
Joined on Feb 2012
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#155
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i have an idea for additional feature, or at least it would be helpful for a few users i guess.
when one chooses a background for the stand-by screen a selecting square appears and lets the user define what area of a certain picture is to be displayed in the end.
would be cool if that would be possible for home screen settings app too. that way one is not always forced to cut pictures into the needed image size at the pc.
well just an idea...
when one chooses a background for the stand-by screen a selecting square appears and lets the user define what area of a certain picture is to be displayed in the end.
would be cool if that would be possible for home screen settings app too. that way one is not always forced to cut pictures into the needed image size at the pc.
well just an idea...
| The Following User Says Thank You to kb61 For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-09-08
, 16:32
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Posts: 178 |
Thanked: 98 times |
Joined on Jun 2012
@ Austria
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#156
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Originally Posted by Boxeri
really strange
What the hell???? Where do these people come from?
an app for 1 (in letters: one)Euro, and some are complaining and whining and demanding.
Unbelievable
| The Following User Says Thank You to MarcAnton For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-09-09
, 00:42
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Posts: 20 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Apr 2011
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#157
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Please, do actually read my post and abstain from the kneejerk reactions. At no point do I claim that vesuri should not offer a paid application.
There is nothing wrong with saying, "y'know, you enjoyed my free product, I have a product that's even better. But to make it, I had to pass up alternative methods of income and that's where you'd come in." Anyone would be glad to support a good product like this.
There is also nothing wrong with offering a product for a price from the beginning.
The price is not the issue either. The cost could be $0.01 or $19.99, for all I care.
However, there is something wrong with someone running after you and saying, "you know the product I just gave to you, for naught? Actually, I think I want money now, so give me some and I'll even throw in this stuff you don't actually want."
Two separate apps would have solved this without any maintenance headache for existing users. I don't know whether Vesuri decided to use this "upgrade" path explicitly, but I don't see much regard for existing users. For new users, the experience is the same, after all. And there's nothing wrong with that.
There is nothing wrong with saying, "y'know, you enjoyed my free product, I have a product that's even better. But to make it, I had to pass up alternative methods of income and that's where you'd come in." Anyone would be glad to support a good product like this.
There is also nothing wrong with offering a product for a price from the beginning.
The price is not the issue either. The cost could be $0.01 or $19.99, for all I care.
However, there is something wrong with someone running after you and saying, "you know the product I just gave to you, for naught? Actually, I think I want money now, so give me some and I'll even throw in this stuff you don't actually want."
Two separate apps would have solved this without any maintenance headache for existing users. I don't know whether Vesuri decided to use this "upgrade" path explicitly, but I don't see much regard for existing users. For new users, the experience is the same, after all. And there's nothing wrong with that.
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2012-09-09
, 01:08
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Moderator |
Posts: 6,215 |
Thanked: 6,400 times |
Joined on Nov 2011
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#158
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if you had read Vesuri's comments he explicitly said that he didn't want to start charging for versions pre-v2.0 but Store started charging for his app the moment he uploaded v2.0 for QA testing... So there isn't much he can do anyway..
there is no knee-jerk reactions here just general bemusement on how such an essential app that is asking for a token fee and NOT the developer's time cost is getting a poor response from people like you when such an app would have cost a lot more for a lot less on any competing OS...
You need to learn how good this community and its devs are before even thinking of such a low-level thought..
Last edited by thedead1440; 2012-09-09 at 01:43.
there is no knee-jerk reactions here just general bemusement on how such an essential app that is asking for a token fee and NOT the developer's time cost is getting a poor response from people like you when such an app would have cost a lot more for a lot less on any competing OS...
You need to learn how good this community and its devs are before even thinking of such a low-level thought..
Last edited by thedead1440; 2012-09-09 at 01:43.
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2012-09-09
, 04:27
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Posts: 20 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Apr 2011
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#159
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Thanks for what amounts to be the first useful answer to my inquiry.
I did read this thread; did Vesuri really state this here?
So it's pretty much Nokia's fault. That's unfortunate and I apologize for blaming the developer.
There are two dimensions to any price, and those are (perceived) value and cost. I disagree with the implication that this app would have any value on competing OSes since they provide much of the provided functionality out of the box. Many gaps are furthermore filled by free offerings.
But that's not any Harmattan developer's fault and of course, developing this application was costly, even if only in time.
And I can't get behind your statement that this fee can not cover Vesuri's expended time. If that is the case, it has failed its purpose, no? A token fee makes sense to protect the seller from exploitation. But an app doesn't know scarcity, information can be reproduced at virtually no cost at all.
So why take money at all if not to reimburse the developer? To bother and/or annoy users?
Edit: Not Fremantle; Harmattan, of course.
Last edited by anyonebutthis; 2012-09-09 at 04:30.
I did read this thread; did Vesuri really state this here?
So it's pretty much Nokia's fault. That's unfortunate and I apologize for blaming the developer.
There are two dimensions to any price, and those are (perceived) value and cost. I disagree with the implication that this app would have any value on competing OSes since they provide much of the provided functionality out of the box. Many gaps are furthermore filled by free offerings.
But that's not any Harmattan developer's fault and of course, developing this application was costly, even if only in time.
And I can't get behind your statement that this fee can not cover Vesuri's expended time. If that is the case, it has failed its purpose, no? A token fee makes sense to protect the seller from exploitation. But an app doesn't know scarcity, information can be reproduced at virtually no cost at all.
So why take money at all if not to reimburse the developer? To bother and/or annoy users?
Edit: Not Fremantle; Harmattan, of course.
Last edited by anyonebutthis; 2012-09-09 at 04:30.
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2012-09-09
, 05:20
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Moderator |
Posts: 6,215 |
Thanked: 6,400 times |
Joined on Nov 2011
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#160
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the time spent on the development of an application and the cost of the application are sadly not totally related in the case of harmattan. For Example you can sell a similar utility app as we call it on iOS for the same price and i can bet my bottom dollar you will be raking in huge profits.
however, when it comes to Harmattan common sense dictates that due the much smaller user base raking in anywhere as those kinds of profits is impossible. When a developer for Harmattan charges he is doing it to cover SOME of the costs that he expended while developing the app. The obvious hope is that he can cover all his costs but its quite unlikely for that to occur. The main motivation for any developer on Harmattan is his passion for the community and in return the community should show its appreciation in return.
to show your appreciation you leave positive feedback and either pay/donate for an app. Both of the latter approaches have pros and cons for developers.
for an app such as this which originally was only to help unlock orientation and set wallpapers of a users choice it was widely available from the Store since Day One.
Along the way the developer has spent further time and resources to add increased functionality which in anybody's opinion deserves a payment. Now tell me since it has been in the Store might as well implement a payments system for it instead of a donation system right? Do remember donations are not always better as can be seen in Wolke's power button mapper which has 100s of downloads yet only 2donations.
the low price allows everyone in the community to still utilise the app hence it wasn't priced higher. The main hope is that after deducting all the charges from Nokia, the developer is left with enough to at least cover the meat and beer required while developing.
Harmattan apps are different compared to iOS/Android apps in economic logic so think twice before coming to any conclusions...
Edit: I know this post has got long but one thing to ponder for anyone questioning a developer in the future:
If a developer developed the same thing for iOS this is how he would have charged and earned:
Set own wallpaper for every launcher screen + lockscreen pre-iOS5: 1 euro
Folder opacity: 1 euro
Custom operator name: 1 euro
Orientation unlocker for all apps: 1 euro
Only white text: 1 euro
SIne wallpapers pack: 1 euro
Horizon wallpapers pack: 1 euro
Total = 7euros (7 different apps)
Multiply that by at least 1 million official downloads and after deducting all charges the developer can be set for life...The userbase is so huge that even if 9million downloads are pirated and 1million are official you still earn big bucks...
Now compare for harmattan:
All the above + future support + future new features = 1 euro
Total = 1euro
Multiply that by maybe a few thousand only
Now you get the difference?
Last edited by thedead1440; 2012-09-09 at 07:14.
however, when it comes to Harmattan common sense dictates that due the much smaller user base raking in anywhere as those kinds of profits is impossible. When a developer for Harmattan charges he is doing it to cover SOME of the costs that he expended while developing the app. The obvious hope is that he can cover all his costs but its quite unlikely for that to occur. The main motivation for any developer on Harmattan is his passion for the community and in return the community should show its appreciation in return.
to show your appreciation you leave positive feedback and either pay/donate for an app. Both of the latter approaches have pros and cons for developers.
for an app such as this which originally was only to help unlock orientation and set wallpapers of a users choice it was widely available from the Store since Day One.
Along the way the developer has spent further time and resources to add increased functionality which in anybody's opinion deserves a payment. Now tell me since it has been in the Store might as well implement a payments system for it instead of a donation system right? Do remember donations are not always better as can be seen in Wolke's power button mapper which has 100s of downloads yet only 2donations.
the low price allows everyone in the community to still utilise the app hence it wasn't priced higher. The main hope is that after deducting all the charges from Nokia, the developer is left with enough to at least cover the meat and beer required while developing.
Harmattan apps are different compared to iOS/Android apps in economic logic so think twice before coming to any conclusions...
Edit: I know this post has got long but one thing to ponder for anyone questioning a developer in the future:
If a developer developed the same thing for iOS this is how he would have charged and earned:
Set own wallpaper for every launcher screen + lockscreen pre-iOS5: 1 euro
Folder opacity: 1 euro
Custom operator name: 1 euro
Orientation unlocker for all apps: 1 euro
Only white text: 1 euro
SIne wallpapers pack: 1 euro
Horizon wallpapers pack: 1 euro
Total = 7euros (7 different apps)
Multiply that by at least 1 million official downloads and after deducting all charges the developer can be set for life...The userbase is so huge that even if 9million downloads are pirated and 1million are official you still earn big bucks...
Now compare for harmattan:
All the above + future support + future new features = 1 euro
Total = 1euro
Multiply that by maybe a few thousand only
Now you get the difference?
Last edited by thedead1440; 2012-09-09 at 07:14.
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| home screen, homescreen, orientation, settings, wallpaper |
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Just keep up the good work, Vesuri!
twitter: @fitronarwani @N9Indonesia