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#1
As promised (threatened), I'm posting a intro about myself, how I got involved in all this, why I agreed to get involved in all this and what I plan to "do" in all this.

First of all, a bit about me. I've been hacking and developing FOSS for several decades, making me an old-timer. I was part of the Apache Group, the original team of Apache httpd developers who later went on to found the Apache Software Foundation, which is likely one of the best known Open Source Foundations in existence. I've been on the board of the ASF since day 1, serving as Sec/EVP, Chairman and President. All directors are elected by the ASF membership. Despite some vague allegations, I am not some FOSS politician; I am a coder, and still am active on numerous FOSS projects, as a simple look on Ohloh would show. Because of my work, I was also elected into the Open Source Initiative (OSI) and the OuterCurve Foundation. I also speak at conferences about FOSS, communities, licensing, etc... I work for Red Hat.

There is a mailing list (foundation@) for those within the FOSS spheres related to issues/concerns/questions about running/organizing/etc FOSS foundations. Maybe 2 weeks ago there was an email posted on that list asking for help with HiFo. I did some research and it seemed to me that the community and foundation has great spirit, great potential and a great mission (a *real* open source mobile OS). It also looked like the foundation was in danger of dissolving, so I contacted the 2 posters and indicated my interest in helping however I could. At the time, I was attending and presenting at ApacheCon and things went quiet for awhile... we tried to connect but due to the con, timing was bad, and it wasn't until last week when I pinged board@HiFo again that I was made aware that I had actually been proposed as director!

So why did I even bother? True enough, up until the post on foundations@, I had not even heard about HiFo, and Maemo was just a vague awareness. First of all, as indicated above, I also believe that the mobile world would *greatly* benefit from a *real* open source mobile OS. iOS ain't, and neither is Android. "Real" open source for me is more than just a license, it's a community. And despite being treated like crap, from what I saw, the Maemo community was still holding up. Since it seemed to me that the existence and the health and viability of HiFo was crucial to Maemo continuing, I wanted to help. I figured that my experience in creating and running FOSS foundations might be useful, and maybe my experience and "reputation" might make Nokia feel more comfortable in the endeavor. Also, I thought that my PoV that foundations exist for the community and not the reverse aligned 100% with this situation. HiFo would exist and run for the simple legal aspects required to allow Nokia to donate the assets and allow the community to continue growing, developing and having fun... This is how the ASF works and I saw similarities.

So I know nothing about the code, and would not presume to direct or manage how it's coded, what to add, etc... IMO, that's not the function of the foundation or the board anyway. My desire was, and is, to help get HiFo on solid footing and then step away.

But as my initial post indicates, I don't suffer fools. I've been told that people are upset with the "processes" associated with HiFo; I'll be honest: if you are running a legal entity (and HiFo is), especially one that aspires to be a true NPF (501(c)3), you *better* follow the rules required, and I'm sure that Nokia wants that assurance. You can also bet that *any* entity that would even *think* of using code developed my Maemo would want to ensure that it can track IP and the like. That's what HiFo needs to ensure. If people think they can be lazy or lackadaisical about such things, then, well, you can develop the code of course, but no entity will use it; the risk would be too great.

And finally, I would like some sort of straw poll on whether or not you, the community, would like me to continue. In many ways, I was "forced" upon you, either rightly or wrongly. Now I'd like to hear from you.
 

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#2
Thank you very much for the introduction and for accepting the position. I hope you can also tolerate the community since heated discussions are quite common here when it concerns politics.
You have my vote of confidence. (I'm a nobody by the way, just a regular vanilla member.)
 

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#3
Thank you for your letter and the will to help. Maybe I'm not someone important here but seeing that there is a chance to move forward and gain new momentum I warmly welcome you here and hope that you will help the community with this project and end users like I can have a nice and bright future with Maemo or whatever will come out of it
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#4
Thanks for posting.

I selected Jim based on his body of work in the OSS community and what I believe to be our needs at the moment. Yes, I opted for continuity rather than elections. Despite what has been suggested, Jim and I have no prior relationship and I did not ask any special consideration, just that he benefit us with his experience. Without slighting him, there were no suggestions from the community other than Woody who has also agreed to join the Board. I realize that this all happened quickly, and I too wish there had been more time for consideration, but despite the 7-day constraint, we have fortunately ended up in a good position for the future after the unfortunate resignations of Ivan and Tim.

I encourage everyone to join me in extending Jim a warm welcome.
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#5
Voilla ! It happens
tym to step up guyz
 

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#6
This is a great moment for something like this to happen. Lots of people around the globe are desperate to see free and common platform living outside the prisons of walled ecosystems sustained by hype and perpetual creation of new devices, the very best of falling unnatural consumer economy.

Welcome and thanks.

With your experience and with magical talent of some guys/girls around here Hildon will be a new standard.
 

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#7
Hi, and I welcome you on board. However, there are some things I want to say about your approach to our community, that bother me, and I am sure that bother others too.

First of all, I heard your name for the first time here (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...51&postcount=5) on a post dated on the 5th of March 2013. 5 days later, (which I regard as a very long time given the 7 day limit BoD had to appoint a new director) you appear, not to say hi, but rather to defend yourself against somebody who called you a politician, demanding him to have studied the facts and learn about you, before opening his mouth.

I find it arrogant to stay away and expect maemo community members to know about you and not criticize the choice of your person at a so important position in maemo. Speaking for myself I denied to look you up, and waited for you to come say hi, as I wanted to first get to know you rather than form an opinion based on a cv.

Secondly you have to understand that as our major point of friction with the BoD is lack of communication and very slow actions, your appointment and absence for the first days looked very well like a desperate attempt to keep the imploding HiFo board from collapsing.

On a third point, I recall no flaming or other insults in the thread we have been asking for the Community's opinion regarding Board Election. Despite that you post an introductory letter calling some of the participants there fools. I find that insulting, much more than calling somebody a politician.

Lastly, it seems from your letter that you've been either informed only by one side about council's disagreements with board, or that you haven't been informed at all. There is following rules, and there's typolatry, with a huge space between them.
Adhering to every single word of the Bylaws to interpret them as convenient at the moment, not allowing tech staff to appoint maintainers without official BoD meeting (scheduled weeks later) when all directors agreed by email, sending out NDA's to corporations that never asked for them and demanding contracts from a company that has offered to provide free hosting, without even providing a draft are some of our complaints towards HiFo.

I really appreciate the fact that you have come here to help, and I do believe we need somebody that knows more about building communities than we do. I for example have no experience whatsoever. However, please do not assume what's happening inside maemo and provide general advice, we are not fools.

Sincerely,

Michael Demetriou
Maemo Community Council

Last edited by qwazix; 2013-03-12 at 15:46. Reason: s/Me(.*?)has/I $1 have/
 

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#8
Welcome, Jim!
thanks for offering your help and expertise.

Originally Posted by Jimjag View Post
[...] I thought that my PoV that foundations exist for the community and not the reverse aligned 100% with this situation. HiFo would exist and run for the simple legal aspects required to allow Nokia to donate the assets and allow the community to continue growing, developing and having fun...
I think that's all we really bother about. With this approach you'll bring some highly appreciated common sense into HiFo which in the past acted in a way that made HiFo look quite the opposite, made community feel like getting patronized and outright insulted maemo community council. Highlight of this mindset been the proposition that maemo community council != HiFo council, allegedly never meant to be, and basically maemo community council would have no word on the way HiFo BoD proceeds, despite the very creators and fathers of HiFo explained that the contrary been intended when HiFo council been introduced into bylaws. Quazix described all that as "communication problems", I'm not quite sure it was just that.
Anyway I think HiFo will be a better thing with you on board, and I appreciate you taking a seat in BoD. Nevertheless we need a re-election for HiFo since too many bad feelings, namecalling, and problems with following the bylaws happened during last few weeks and HiFo itself needs such re-election for various reasons now. I hope you'll throw your hat into the ring and I'm rather sure you'll make it to one of the top ranks on any such vote.

See you at maemo council meeting IRC:(freenode.org)#maemo-meeting Friday 1800UTC
cheers
jOERG
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#9
First and foremost, thank you for your introduction. While it may not have had the desired impact, it's good to see communication with the community is a priority. I'm also glad to see you asking the community if they desire your presence here. That alone speaks volumes.

Originally Posted by Jimjag View Post
it wasn't until last week when I pinged board@HiFo again that I was made aware that I had actually been proposed as director!
Understand, this was not how things were presented to the community. No fault of yours, I get that. But keep in mind that some/most of the anger you're hearing has less to do with who you are or what you're saying than with the context in which it's being interpreted. In some cases, things said can be misinterpreted as insults where none may have been intended (in both directions), like this:

Originally Posted by Jimjag View Post
But as my initial post indicates, I don't suffer fools.
There's a large difference between a fool and someone who's been fooled. Many here feel they've been tricked or fooled into supporting something that they now no longer recognize.

Consider in the future that you may not be aware of how things have happened, and may not be fully up to speed on the topics at hand. Commenting on things you don't understand without seeking input first, to some, would be consider foolish. Some see you in that light. Combined with other factors around your presentation, it's not unreasonable that they are upset by how they perceive things to be unfolding.

Originally Posted by Jimjag View Post
I've been told that people are upset with the "processes" associated with HiFo; I'll be honest: if you are running a legal entity (and HiFo is), especially one that aspires to be a true NPF (501(c)3), you *better* follow the rules required, and I'm sure that Nokia wants that assurance.
Agreed, which is why some of the community is upset about what it perceives as the Board not following those rules. I for one am not certain that the letter of the law has been followed here, and I was involved in the writing and refining of them. I can tell you with certainty that the spirit of the law has not been followed.

Originally Posted by Jimjag View Post
You can also bet that *any* entity that would even *think* of using code developed my Maemo
I think you need to educate yourself before speaking on this.

Maemo is a commercial product created by Nokia. At no point can the community or HiFo sell it, give it away, or authorize it's use in another product. While some rights are being transferred from Nokia to HiFo, some are not. I'm still reading the terms of the contract, but I can tell you that some of the base code for portions of Maemo will remain closed due to third party agreements with Nokia if not for Nokia's own sake.

That said, many portions of the ecosystem around Maemo are already in, or are finding their ways to other projects. And commits from this community going up-stream in FOSS components have benefited several other cell based and ARM based communities.

I'd also like to point out that while there is an over-arching goal for HiFo to promote an open arena for portable devices, it's first and foremost commitment is to keep this community alive. The mission statement in the bylaws is very clear on that point, placing it before the other objectives and goals.

Originally Posted by Jimjag View Post
And finally, I would like some sort of straw poll on whether or not you, the community, would like me to continue. In many ways, I was "forced" upon you, either rightly or wrongly. Now I'd like to hear from you.
I think that is in part what's being proposed by holding new elections as soon as possible (e.g. announcing them at the next Foundation meeting, which is overdue at this point). This allows the community to (re)consider you, Rob, myself, and any new potential candidates from the community. This is in the spirit and the letter of the bylaws of the Foundation, and what the community clearly is calling for at this point.

As Directors, we can call that election at any time for the Board. Think of it as a vote of confidence in a normal Board setting, but applied to all members equally instead of just the chairman or one particular member. It's really not that complex, but will take over a month to do. It's an intentionally slow paced process and requires little additional time on behalf of standing members.

I for one see a great need to allow the community to validate (or rebuff) the current members of the board, since all of the directors have now been appointed, not elected as intended and desired by the community.

In the mean time, we can continue to act and resolve these critical issues in our infrastructure. But we must be mindful of the community while doing so.
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#10
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
[...]
Maemo is a commercial product created by Nokia. At no point can the community or HiFo sell it, give it away, or authorize it's use in another product. While some rights are being transferred from Nokia to HiFo, some are not. I'm still reading the terms of the contract, but I can tell you that some of the base code for portions of Maemo will remain closed due to third party agreements with Nokia if not for Nokia's own sake.[...]
so much for dreaming a little, or for visionary input, huh?
nobody expects to see Maemo running on a super-duper-N9000 with Quadcore mobile CPU & 4GB or RAM of course, but... what about all the developments that followed up on Maemo and / or MeeGo?
we see NitDroid (a port of Android to the NOKIA Internet Tablets, N8x0, N900 or N9) but how about seeing one of those "developments" once being flashed on an Android device?
unthinkable?
i missed (i nearly was going to type "gladly") out on the Jolla Gate, but still, my understanding was that we should be glad if we can run Sailfish (Jolla's oncoming OS developed on MeeGo respectively a couple community driven software's derived thereof) on N9s, mostly because that's what Jolla used as development devices...

maybe, maybe, external input could help us steer towards a "real" open-source mobile OS?


Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
[...]
Understand, this was not how things were presented to the community. No fault of yours, I get that. But keep in mind that some/most of the anger you're hearing has less to do with who you are or what you're saying than with the context in which it's being interpreted. In some cases, things said can be misinterpreted as insults where none may have been intended (in both directions)[...]
give Jim some slack, maybe?
i know you, Woody, are one of those pedantic members who try your best to read all posts before replying to a thread but... do you expect a guy who is just "landed" to be aware of all the finesse (though the word doesn't quite cover it ) of TMO?
'nuff said

Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
[...]
I think you need to educate yourself before speaking on this.[...]
see above... :|

i nearly decided against posting 'cuz your post pretty much addressed all the points that came to my mind when reading Jim's letter, but then...
the tone of some of your didn't quite seem that welcoming after all



Originally Posted by Jimjag View Post
As promised (threatened), I'm posting a intro about myself, how I got involved in all this, why I agreed to get involved in all this and what I plan to "do" in all this.
[...]
(nice one )
Jim,

as others already did i would like to thank you for taking the time to post you letter and thereby answering most if not all of our questions / concerns.
considering your curriculum i suspect you are used to the law of the jungle that sometimes prevail on forums...
this one is no exception
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