No-one claimed that Jolla is Apple. That was a little bit of sarcasm on my part to point out how trivial some of the matters are that some people on here are complaining about. It seems that there are some extremely unrealistic expectations of this company, probably fuelled by years of disappointments from Nokia.

They're learning all of this - Jolla is a new company and the guys who started it came from a small part of Nokia, and they're doing this without the infrastructure they had behind them. Maybe they ****ed up. Maybe they put the wrong stamps on, or forgot about the whole air mail lithium battery thing. Maybe they didn't, and they've encountered problems we haven't even thought of because we don't run mobile phone companies either.

Whether these mistakes are big or small, it's an extremely bad idea for companies to go into details about it publicly. Every company screws up from time to time, but if they published the fine details every time they did, they risk getting bad press, getting a reputation for not knowing what they're doing, and then investors and consumers could lose confidence. Even all this complaining on a public forum such as this, plus all the hacking, may be damaging to them. It's less than a month since we ordered. Chill.

Oh, I almost forgot the schoolboy argument points. Fallacy fallacy, that's just like your opinion, man. Etc.

Indeed, but when challenged to clarify whether this actually meant physical shipping to customers or moved to 'in picking' they failed to respond at all

Where are you based and did you get any sort of tracking number or predelivery information from whoever delivered it?

And lo! #679's just arrived in my hands!

Thank you Jolla, getting the job done!

For your info there's a sheet titled Packing List, with the Sender given as "DHL Supply Chain Finland/Jolla".

FedEx delivered the package.

Nokia has nothing to do with my opinion of Jolla. If anything, Jolla has received much benefit of doubt from me - and I am willing to give them much more, if they respond in kind. Jolla could have given the community the benefit of the doubt and decided to be honest and open with us instead of radio silence.

On this we agree. Me beef is not with them hitting obstacles and failing to deliver in time. I can understand those, because I do treat them like the small startup that they are. My wish is, they would respond in kind: Treat us like the first customers and supporters of the small startup they are. Not try to emulate the behaviour of large companies, while simultaneously asking our sympathy and support for a small company.

Jolla is not "every company". They say they want to be Unlike. They are a small startup with a technical early adopter community to address and whose support they wish to enlist. Treating them like "every company" is not, in my opinion, a wise move. I think Jolla is already getting far more bad press and badwill than they would have been by being just a little more open. You disagree and that's fine.

I'm also not trying to make this sound bigger than it is. This is a Jolla order tracking thread, hence we discuss it. I don't think Jolla's future hinges on any of this stuff at all (it is the big things it hinges on), but they haven't been community oriented about this and I think it would have been wise of them to have been. I think it would have been a good move by Jolla to have been more open and honest in this particular early adopter scenario.

By the way, they don't teach argumentation in Finnish schools (they probably should) - where I hail from - so it wasn't a schoolboy point from me. It was something experience has unfortunately taught me - and too many recent arguments in this thread have fallen under them. It is frustrating, because it helps nobody, other than perhaps helping to diminish the other person and their argument.

In similar vein, you just had to try an make me sound like schoolboy or childish perhaps, would you accept that as an attempted ad hominem?

I can hear emergency holiday being booked all over Europe...

OK, living in Belgium and number #985
No shipping information received. Shop.jolla not updated after 'in picking'

Delivered by FedEx.

interessting is with wich shipping company will be shipped in germany. I call to Fedex, but he dont find any package for me maybe it will be arrive wih dhl or other....

Have to admit I've not been relying on the shop status to give us much info, but I was anticipating people receiving a notification from whoever is delivering the package.

It is highly likely that there would be noone at my home to receive a delivery if I do not get such advance notification.