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chenliangchen is offline chenliangchen
2016-09-05 , 16:37
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#51
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic View Post
If you got 500 people willing to pay upfront, I think you would be doing well...

Honestly, I think going down the hardware route is a bad idea. It nearly bankrupted Jolla twice (phone and tablet), the Neo900 project is 3 years old and still nothing, etc.

I think it would be better to take an existing piece of hardware and get a build of Sailfish that works 100% on it. I know there are lots of community ports, but they always seem to get abandoned with some key functions of the phone not working or stable.
Agreed, you have my conclusion here which I did not say in previous post.

If we are outsourcing HW, I don't think it can beat some devices here, as sony XZ or compact, for instance.

Another difficulty is the cost - how to make the build profitable. If we have a few engineers spending weeks working on a stable build with Alien Dalvik, how many copies he is going to "sell" to make the whole development profitable and sustainable? And how much should each copy's price be?
 

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2016-09-05 , 16:39
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#52
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic View Post
If you got 500 people willing to pay upfront, I think you would be doing well...
Didn't that many people, if nor more, support the Neo900?

Honestly, I think going down the hardware route is a bad idea. It nearly bankrupted Jolla twice (phone and tablet), the Neo900 project is 3 years old and still nothing, etc.
Hardware route isn't as straight forward as people make it out to be. In fact, once you go outside of what an ODM has in stock or has developed, you're now liable to have face delays and more expenses - not to mention, lack of potential drivers or lack of parts (short runs, etc).

I think it would be better to take an existing piece of hardware and get a build of Sailfish that works 100% on it. I know there are lots of community ports, but they always seem to get abandoned with some key functions of the phone not working or stable.
Agree. Just wish that somebody would also offer Alien Dalvik and a readily available and easily applied manner (for the layman) apply and to reverse the process. We need a Cyanogenmod of sorts but bring in the lesser savvy to avoid being marginalized.
 

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aegis is offline aegis
2016-09-05 , 16:52
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#53
I'm trying not to be the management type that stops an engineer or accountant in their tracks when they throw up reasons why something can't be done but so far these all sound like solvable problems to me.

Sure, we could pick a Sony and then do a kick *** port to that, and I for one would be happy, but the idea is to build a relationship with an ODM.

1) Start with an almost off the shelf design they have that can be a base port.

2) sell n hundred / thousand

3) do the niche versions with keyboards / huge batteries / big screens / small screens / IR ports / fins
 

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r0kk3rz is offline r0kk3rz
2016-09-05 , 17:08
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#54
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
1) Start with an almost off the shelf design they have that can be a base port.

2) sell n hundred / thousand

3) do the niche versions with keyboards / huge batteries / big screens / small screens / IR ports / fins
So do it! Don't let us stop you

Speccing up a cheap aqua fish style device with 4" screen would be a good start, enough people complain about the physical size of even of the Jolla Phone and so having something on the cheaper side than the Sony X not-so-compact seems like a good idea.
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Feathers McGraw is offline Feathers McGraw
2016-09-05 , 17:18
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#55
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic View Post
I think it would be better to take an existing piece of hardware and get a build of Sailfish that works 100% on it. I know there are lots of community ports, but they always seem to get abandoned with some key functions of the phone not working or stable.
Sure, reverse engineering some native drivers would be great too as the final objective.

Realistically, it would have to be easily repairable too, which most modern phones aren't...but Fairphone 2 is
 

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aegis is offline aegis
2016-09-05 , 17:30
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#56
Originally Posted by r0kk3rz View Post
Speccing up a cheap aqua fish style device with 4" screen would be a good start
Which brings me back to the first post. How hard would that be?

Surely we could come up with a list of components that would be the least trouble to port to?

eg. CPU: Snapdragon 615, Camera Sensor: Sony IMX300... etc

Or do I just pick the Sony Z3c or Fairphone 2 from the port list and look for an ODM that'll do that hardware ? The problem I see there is those are a few years old already. By the time we'd argued about the screen size, the CPU would no longer be in production.
 

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r0kk3rz is offline r0kk3rz
2016-09-05 , 17:45
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#57
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
Which brings me back to the first post. How hard would that be?

Surely we could come up with a list of components that would be the least trouble to port to?

eg. CPU: Snapdragon 615, Camera Sensor: Sony IMX300... etc
A newer snapdragon SoC would be fine, but bare in mind that currently 64bit is not working. It's probably best to come up with a bunch of lists of OEM devices and let us pick and choose rather than come up with a 'dream device' that was never really an option to begin with.

One Plus X has a well working port with a Snapdragon 801 so that might be worth keeping an eye out for.
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aegis is offline aegis
2016-09-05 , 17:49
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#58
Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
Realistically, it would have to be easily repairable too, which most modern phones aren't...but Fairphone 2 is
Why does it have to be repairable?

I appreciate Fairphone's ethics but IMHO they took so long they ended up with a huge phone with 2013's specs which they'll now have to sell for another three years to make any sense of the 'repairable' goal.

Usually I keep a phone for about two years and then buy another. That works out cheaper than a Fairphone. If it's a mainstream phone, the parts are usually available from ebay for a lot less than Fairphone charge too.

I don't mean that as slight on Fairphone. What they're doing is how it should be instead of the disposable world we have now where I can email China from a pub in Yorkshire and have companies selling me gadgets with my name on in 30 minutes. But that's what it is and it's why nobody makes phones in Europe anymore.
 

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aegis is offline aegis
2016-09-05 , 17:57
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#59
Originally Posted by r0kk3rz View Post
One Plus X has a well working port with a Snapdragon 801 so that might be worth keeping an eye out for.
So is the Fairphone 2 which presumably isn't getting Android 7 due to the lack of OpenGL 3.1 or Vulkan if I've read the news correctly as to why the Sony Z3 family (also Snapdragon 801) wasn't getting 7.
 

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r0kk3rz is offline r0kk3rz
2016-09-05 , 18:05
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#60
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
So is the Fairphone 2 which presumably isn't getting Android 7 due to the lack of OpenGL 3.1 or Vulkan if I've read the news correctly as to why the Sony Z3 family (also Snapdragon 801) wasn't getting 7.
Looks like the released Turing Phone was also an 801 series.

The newer series stuff is all 64bit ARM which is currently problematic for sailfish porting, but work is being done to get that sorted though so it might be worth a risk.
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