do you mean that we can change the operating system on n8xx??!?

We've been able to do that for a long time.

Except, before, it didn't work very well. Too many crucial closed source bits to build a new O/S from scratch, and too much hassle for the average non-developer to re-compile every little obscure program that people want to try under the standard operating system. Every new application compiled for the N8x0 is a big announcement.

Now, we can simply run any application compiled by the Debian team, under PenguinBait's KDE. They've compiled the huge majority of applications in the vast Debian repositories, and the percentage is going steadily up.

(PS: I posted this in Epiphany Webkit)

johnx's Debian has pretty much always been as simple as untaring the thing where you want it. . . .

If only untarring johnx's Debian was all that was necessary to "change the operating system on the N8x0".

I have not seen a how-to or announcement by anyone satisfactorily running an alternate operating system on the N8x0 yet. Johnx himself admits that his system is very incomplete and not really designed for end-users.

The only information I've been able to find about running Debian chroot could only suggest using VNC viewer to access apps in the chroot, and that meant running two X servers and two WMs, which caused a big performance hit. Also, that method did not expose any of the tablet's hardware to the chroot's applications.

So, I would argue that there isn't really any way to "change the operating system on the N8x0". My method is a decent simulation of that, but it's still reliant on the Nokia OS.

http://www.internettablettalk.com/wi...p?title=Debian

Poky and Mamona have also been around for a while, Poky in particular. Incomplete information on your part does not mean things don't exist.

People have been running non-hildon apps to their primary X server for a long time (with or without chroot); the benefit from using VNC was that it permitted simultaneous use of two window managers, one for hildonized and one for "normal" apps, with easy switching.

And I really don't mean to bash your method, or to slight your effort, or even your thoughtfulness in posting it, so please don't get me wrong; but that method or something similar has likely been obvious to most people who would get that far along.
I would symlink those things (unless I experienced problems with that; some bad programs could refuse to deal with symlinks properly), so I would be able to set it up once and leave it alone; but it's essentially the same idea, and I think it really does count as a trivial step.


As for what counts as "changing the operating system", <shrug>whatever</shrug>. You're using relatively few things from the original system; X is the only major userland component from ITOS, assuming you use it with a WM from the chroot. (Which would be my tendency.)



In a few weeks (after qualifiers), I'll likely attempt to make a "wrap-it-up" script that clones the essential elements from ITOS into a Debian rootfs; at that point, if nobody beats me to it, we'll have a file-list of maemo files that are actually needed, but it will arguably be running Debian, even if a handful of files (some of which will be GPL anyway, but still not Debian) are copied over.

<shell type="pastry" filling="fruit" altitude="30000">
From there, the GPLed files can be moved into the filesystem for distribution, and if the system can boot with no proprietary files, a script can gank the ITOS files needed for battery-charging, wifi, and whatever else, on the first boot. Then it would be a legitimate OS unto itself, by any meaningful definition I can think of.
</shell>

I'm glad I'm not the first person to run standard Debian X applications in ITOS using my methods (without recompiling or using "dpkg -i --force-the-kitchen-sink"). I also agree that my discoveries are trivial. I wish someone who had done it, however, had posted some information somewhere so I didn't have to re-invent the wheel. Hopefully, my post will avoid others reinventing that wheel again and again.

To be honest, I've just wanted a way to easily install and run Debian apps and have them more-or-less "just work". Every method I've tried has been disappointing, and this chroot-with-bind method has produced extremely satisfactory results. The apps install without hassle, they work reasonably well, and I don't lose any of my tablet's functionality just to get Abiword running.

I like PB's KDE as the WM to run Debian apps because he has hacked in all sorts of tablet-specific tools and tricks, such as a hardware key that makes apps go full-screen, a key to toggle right-click, a key to move too-big dialog boxes, and he's managed to get the core Hildon apps running, too. So it really is the best of all (three) worlds.

I chose "mount --bind" because that's "how it's done" in all the how-tos for getting 32-bit apps running in a 64 bit system, which is where I learned how to do it.

I am also looking forward to your new system, Benson. To be able to boot to a Debian install that recognizes the tablet's hardware etc. is exciting, too.

Here's some (promised) screenshots.

Installing a game using Synaptic in penguinbait's KDE, fullscreen mode enabled. It really is that easy.


Playing the game on the standard Hildon desktop.


Tabbed browsing using Epiphany Webkit in KDE.


Gimp starting up in KDE. Ok, perhaps that running joke is getting old.

New Debian beta3 release w/ XFCE over here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=20053
Please continue to talk about beta2 and other subjects here in this thread. Any discussion about the new beta3 release should go in the "beta3" thread. Thanks!