Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810 - Page 4 - maemo.org

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	ARJWright	2009-04-28 , 18:09
	Posts: 861 \| Thanked: 734 times \| Joined on Jan 2008 @ Nomadic	#31

Originally Posted by krisse

I would agree with you if they make a Maemo phone. If the new Maemo device isn't a phone though, I can't really see it providing a proper alternative to the N97.

I would not at all be surprised if Maemo 5.5/6 featured a high-end "phone" at the top of the heap. The signs point to it, Nokia all but says it in action, and frankly, its a smart thing for them to do to maximize their Maemo stake.

The 5800 is definitely a phone for the masses, its not a power-user device, nor is it the device Nokia wants to use to push Ovi to the "market influencer" bunch of folks.

That being said, the N97 sure does seem like it should have been an IT. Design language, hardware, timing. It seems less like the other N-series devices and a lot more like what we would have seen from an "N900-like" model.

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sjgadsby	2009-04-28 , 18:18
Posts: 5,335 \| Thanked: 8,187 times \| Joined on Mar 2007 @ Pennsylvania, USA	#32

Originally Posted by ARJWright

That being said, the N97 sure does seem like it should have been an IT. Design language, hardware, timing. It seems less like the other N-series devices and a lot more like what we would have seen from an "N900-like" model.

It would be interesting if the N97 were based upon design work done for an Elephanta device before that release was dropped in favor of rolling on to Fremantle.

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	free	2009-04-28 , 18:47
	Posts: 739 \| Thanked: 159 times \| Joined on Sep 2007 @ Germany - Munich	#33

Does it have an MMU?
Not sure even if my old n95 has one.

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	krisse	2009-04-28 , 22:08
	Posts: 1,540 \| Thanked: 1,045 times \| Joined on Feb 2007	#34

Originally Posted by ARJWright

I would not at all be surprised if Maemo 5.5/6 featured a high-end "phone" at the top of the heap. The signs point to it, Nokia all but says it in action, and frankly, its a smart thing for them to do to maximize their Maemo stake.

I agree, it would make sense, but who knows what they'll do. Nokia behave strangely sometimes... :-)

The 5800 is definitely a phone for the masses, its not a power-user device, nor is it the device Nokia wants to use to push Ovi to the "market influencer" bunch of folks.

IMHO Ovi Store's strength comes from the lower end. It's going to be on most Series 40 devices from now on, which means (if sales stay the same) approximately 200 to 300 million S40 devices per year, plus about 60 million S60 smartphones on top of that, plus Maemo devices... Ovi would be reaching a lot more ordinary people than the current crop of mobile app stores.

(And Ovi itself is a lot more than just the store, it covers all of Nokia's online stuff including mapping, gaming, e-mail, media sharing, syncing, cloud computing etc with a single login.)

That being said, the N97 sure does seem like it should have been an IT. Design language, hardware, timing. It seems less like the other N-series devices and a lot more like what we would have seen from an "N900-like" model.

It reminds me of the Communicator range, which were Nokia's first foray into pocket computing. They use Symbian nowadays, but their roots go right back to the GEOS platform of the mid-90s.

No doubt we'll see an Eseries Communicator which uses a similar shape to the N97 at some point soon.

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skatebiker	2009-05-16 , 21:54
Posts: 542 \| Thanked: 117 times \| Joined on Sep 2008 @ 52 N, 6 E	#35

Last Thursday I bought a 5800 and now I have both devices as well.
Here my impression:

..::N810::..

SPECS:
- Screen 800x480 / 4"
- ARM processor 400 MHz
- MAEMO OS2008 Debian like Linux
- 128MB memory, 2GB internal storage (of which 128MB swap space), max 32GB external MiniSD storage

PRO:
- Open source system full fledged Linux
- No hassles with certificates
- Large screen for a pocket device
- Browser handles virtually all sites properly
- Lots of standard access to and from device (SSH, SFTP, VNC) as it is Linux
- Lots of freeware applications (the only paid application is the excellent Wayfinder Map)
- Can be used as webserver (Apache / Lighttpd with PHP 5)
- No bloated Windows apps (such as PC Suite, Maps Loader) needed for Updates and syncing, it can update itself like a real Linux computer.

CON:
- Somewhat heavy (200g)
- No office suite
- No phone (other than Voip client) but can use a GPRS/UMTS with Bluetooth as a modem
- Some touchscreen elements do not work properly (e.g. you have to click 10x before checkmarks / radio buttons respond)
- Poor GPS

..::5800::..

SPECS:
- Screen 640x360 / 3.5"
- ARM processor 369 MHz
- Symbian S60v5
- 80MB memory (of which 40 MB user memory), max 32GB external MicroSD storage

PRO:
- Smaller pocket size
- Large screen for a phone but smaller than N810
- Touchscreen slightly better than N810 (checkmarks work and feedback by vibrating)
- Lots of nice skins available for free

CON:
- No virtual memory which results programs will be killed with a silly 'memory full' message (although this is rather rare compared to older phones)
- Browser not complete yet (cookies do not work on local pages, some sites are not rendered properly, and user agent cannot be changed, which limits some sites to see only limited mobile content)

What BOTH have:
- Builtin GPS (N810 is poor, 5800 unknown as I use a Bluetooth GPS)
- Touchscreen
- Possible for guided navigation (paid, about $100 extra) and free mapper and other GPS related applications and both can use Bluetooth GPS
- Use as VoIP client (N810:Skype, Both:Fring, etc.)
- Use as media player
- Use as web browser although the 5800's browser is somewhat limited
- Use with instant messaging and mailing

Both devices together cost less or at most the same as a single N97 but have lots more functionality. The price is for both about the same, about EUR 320 in Europe (which might equal $250-$300 in the US).

Last edited by skatebiker; 2009-05-17 at 08:04. Reason: Builtin GPS under 5800 is not a CON

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	krisse	2009-05-16 , 22:16
	Posts: 1,540 \| Thanked: 1,045 times \| Joined on Feb 2007	#36

No bloated Windows apps (such as PC Suite, Maps Loader) needed for Updates and syncing, it can update itself like a real Linux computer.

I don't know where people get this idea that Symbian requires Windows apps. The 5800 has OTA firmware updates and all of its PIM and other stuff can be synced directly through the phone's own internet connection. (That's part of the point of Ovi, to allow on-phone syncing.)

CON: - GPS: unknown (I use a Bluetooth GPS)

Why is a built-in GPS a con if you haven't even used it?

The 5800's GPS is excellent, far far better than the N810s. I've never had a reliable lock with the N810, whereas the 5800 locks every time and quickly too.

Also, the 5800 can use a variety of GPS software: Nokia Maps, Google Maps, Garmin etc.

EDIT:

No virtual memory which results programs will be killed with a silly 'memory full' message (although this is rather rare compared to older phones)

You'd have to be running quite a few apps at once to get that message, I haven't run into it so far.

S60 used to have far too little free RAM until about 2007, but from 2008 onwards Nokia got the message and started putting useful amounts of free RAM in their Symbian devices.

Last edited by krisse; 2009-05-16 at 22:24.

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	GeneralAntilles	2009-05-17 , 04:49
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#37

Originally Posted by krisse

The 5800 has OTA firmware updates . . .

. . . or so Nokia claims, although I've seen no evidence of them actually working.

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skatebiker	2009-05-17 , 08:10
Posts: 542 \| Thanked: 117 times \| Joined on Sep 2008 @ 52 N, 6 E	#38

Originally Posted by krisse

I don't know where people get this idea that Symbian requires Windows apps. The 5800 has OTA firmware updates and all of its PIM and other stuff can be synced directly through the phone's own internet connection. (That's part of the point of Ovi, to allow on-phone syncing.)

How do you do this direct from the phone ?
I reflashed it with PC Suite (in a VMware session of XP under Kubuntu ;-) )

Why is a built-in GPS a con if you haven't even used it?
The 5800's GPS is excellent, far far better than the N810s. I've never had a reliable lock with the N810, whereas the 5800 locks every time and quickly too.
Also, the 5800 can use a variety of GPS software: Nokia Maps, Google Maps, Garmin etc.

I will try it I am just used to the Qstarz BT GPS as it is very good and even fixes indoors.

S60 used to have far too little free RAM until about 2007, but from 2008 onwards Nokia got the message and started putting useful amounts of free RAM in their Symbian devices.

You are right, I had an E70 before and even then I rarely got the 'memory full'. Before that I had a 6680 which issued this awful message virtual every webapge I opened.

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	benny1967	2009-05-17 , 08:44
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#39

Originally Posted by krisse

The 5800 has OTA firmware updates and all of its PIM and other stuff can be synced directly through the phone's own internet connection. (That's part of the point of Ovi, to allow on-phone syncing.)

While this is what you'd expect from Ovi, it doesn't work that way. You can sync your data with the Ovi server only with a limited number of devices, but you can't get it out again (like sync it with your desktop mail client or another mobile device) except you use a special Windows-software. So as the typical consumer (1 phone and Windows) you do need extra software to sync. Other users (phone, tablet, GNU/Linux) cannot sync at all.

This basically limits the use of Ovi to an online backup - if you get it to work at all. My phone for example should be supported but fails to sync ("server error"). Nokia support is unable to help me, other users of the same phone report the same issue.

OTA firmware updates are much the same: They might work if you're lucky, but there's the same chance that they don't: OTA will tell you there's no update available when in fact there is one. You'll still need the windows-software for reliable operation.

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	krisse	2009-05-17 , 11:20
	Posts: 1,540 \| Thanked: 1,045 times \| Joined on Feb 2007	#40

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

. . . or so Nokia claims, although I've seen no evidence of them actually working.

So all four times that I have updated my 5800 by OTA, I was actually hallucinating?

How is it then that I've constantly had the latest firmware on my 5800, despite never flashing it with a computer?

How do you do this direct from the phone ?
I reflashed it with PC Suite (in a VMware session of XP under Kubuntu ;-) )

It's pretty much the same as the tablets, though there's no automatic alert about updates being available. You can flash it with Windows if you want, or you can download the updates directly onto the device. Flashing via a PC tends to be traditionally more reliable than OTA in theory, but I haven't had any problems with OTA updates on the 5800 so far.

Here's a tutorial on firmware updates I wrote for All About Symbian:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...pressMusic.php

...but if you want it in a nutshell, dial *#0000# from the main standby screen, then use the options menu to check for updates.

The same menu can be reached through the Settings section (Settings > Phone > Phone Management > Device Updates).

I will try it I am just used to the Qstarz BT GPS as it is very good and even fixes indoors.

The 5800 will fix indoors too as long as you're in a room with windows. Having a SIM card in also helps because it will be able to use both AGPS and phone mast positioning.

I can't compare the two directly because I don't own a separate GPS unit, but the 5800's built-in GPS is a whole lot better than the N810's.

(In fact all of Nokia's phones have much better GPS than the N810, the N810 must be the worst GPS device that Nokia have ever made.)

OTA firmware updates are much the same: They might work if you're lucky, but there's the same chance that they don't:

There have been four updates so far, and I've used OTA updating four times successfully.

I have never had an OTA update fail.

OTA will tell you there's no update available when in fact there is one. You'll still need the windows-software for reliable operation.

Sometimes it takes longer for an update to appear on OTA, but most ordinary users don't care about getting an update the same day it is issued.

And I wouldn't call that a reliability issue, because once the update becomes available through OTA it continues to be available.

Also bear in mind that firmware rollouts on phones are much more complex than on the tablets, because phones have many dozens of firmware variations for different countries and network-locked variants.

Last edited by krisse; 2009-05-17 at 11:26.