N86 Camera vs. N900 Camera - Page 10 - maemo.org

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	qole	2009-11-28 , 23:59
	Moderator \| Posts: 7,109 \| Thanked: 8,820 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Vancouver, BC, Canada	#91

Originally Posted by cb474

Thanks for the obnoxious snarky remark...

You're more than welcome! I have lots more where that came from!

Originally Posted by cb474

Why aren't you directing your snarky remarks at those people as well? I assume because you agree with them and not with me.

It's not so much about agreement, but about the amount of content in various posts.

If you have nothing to add or don't care about the discussion, why don't you just ignore it?

There's some really interesting stuff being written in this thread. I was suggesting, in my obnoxious, snarky way, that I prefer technical discussions and comparisons over opinions, speculation and impressions.

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cb474	2009-11-29 , 01:30
Posts: 203 \| Thanked: 68 times \| Joined on Oct 2009	#92

Originally Posted by qole

It's not so much about agreement, but about the amount of content in various posts.

Yes and my point was that the people disagreeing with me have posted just as much content in their posts, but you have no snarky words for them. So I think you're disengenuous complaining about my posts and not others. As I said, it seems like you just don't agree with me, so you reserve your snarky comments for me.

Originally Posted by qole

There's some really interesting stuff being written in this thread. I was suggesting, in my obnoxious, snarky way, that I prefer technical discussions and comparisons over opinions, speculation and impressions.

Yeah, and I've been posting links to reviews of the camera and summarizing what they're saying, as well as citing links to the specifications for the N900, to back up my point of view about the current state of the camera and camera application on the N900. And other people have just been speculating about what might come to pass with updates and third party applications in the future. Or providing completely general posts about nature of development in the Linux world or how complicated it is to make a device like the N900 or the nature of first version firmware (things that could be said about almost any device). So again, your post seems disengenuous. I've been providing actual information and specifications about the N900 itself, but you see the other completely speculative posts about the future and general comments about Linux as somehow more substantive and on topic. Honestly I think I've been sticking far closer to the topic of the N900 camera application, it's actual state as it actually is, and how it compares to other Nokia N series devices (which is after all the topic of this thread, which I started).

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attila77	2009-11-29 , 01:37
Posts: 3,319 \| Thanked: 5,610 times \| Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland	#93

Obivously, no end user should ever touch config files or mess with other low level things. It will turn up in Extras when/if improvements are ready. Let me repeat, touch this and you can hose your camera functionality. You have been warned. Now, for people still with me, let's see what we've got:

Code:

[videosrc]
element=v4l2camsrc

[imageenc]
element=jpegenc
quality=95

[videoenc]
element=dspmp4venc
#element=omx_mpeg4enc

[videomux]
element=hantromp4mux

[audiosrc]
element=pulsesrc

[audioenc]
element=nokiaaacenc
bitrate=128000
width=16
depth=16
rate=48000
channels=1

[imagepp]
#element=ipp

[vfsink]
element=xvimagesink
colorkey=16

Okay, now, several interesting things here - the ability to replace gst elements, as pointed out, or to influence their parameters, like jpeg and audio quality (gitorious suggests newer firmwares using dsp for jpeg encoding), etc. I'm unsure how imagepp (postprocessing) is being used, hopefully more info will surface.

One low hanging fruit for interested hackers is probably the 'vfsink' - replacing that with custom elements would allow for more HUD style action, like showing an accelerometer based horizon, etc.

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Last edited by attila77; 2009-11-29 at 01:40.

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	qole	2009-11-30 , 00:16
	Moderator \| Posts: 7,109 \| Thanked: 8,820 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Vancouver, BC, Canada	#94

I think it's funny how you think my comment was obnoxious, snarky, etc.

I had my phasers set to "tickle".

But since you've been insulting to me, other posters in this thread, and the Maemo developers (whom you have repeadly accused of "rushing the camera app out the door")...

This would more of a snarky comment:

Originally Posted by cb474

I don't really use flickr much. Where is the link to the all sizes page? I don't see that.

I understand how all those tubes on teh Internets can be confusing to some. Perhaps you should practice a bit using some of these "web apps" before asking how to use things like Flickr.

Have you tried this web site? It has lots of buttons and things; you can practice finding and pressing buttons and links there before moving on to Big Complicated Things like Flickr.

Wow that felt good. I haven't let myself be really snarky in a while.

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cb474	2009-11-30 , 20:03
Posts: 203 \| Thanked: 68 times \| Joined on Oct 2009	#95

New Note 14

Originally Posted by qole

I think it's funny how you think my comment was obnoxious, snarky, etc.

I had my phasers set to "tickle".

But since you've been insulting to me, other posters in this thread, and the Maemo developers (whom you have repeadly accused of "rushing the camera app out the door")...

This would more of a snarky comment:

Originally Posted by cb474
I don't really use flickr much. Where is the link to the all sizes page? I don't see that.

I understand how all those tubes on teh Internets can be confusing to some. Perhaps you should practice a bit using some of these "web apps" before asking how to use things like Flickr.

Have you tried this web site? It has lots of buttons and things; you can practice finding and pressing buttons and links there before moving on to Big Complicated Things like Flickr.

Wow that felt good. I haven't let myself be really snarky in a while.

It's a little bit beyond me how asking for help with Flickr, because I don't see the link for different size images is a snarky comment. I honestly don't see the link. And it's telling that you use my honest request for help as another excuse to attack me, which seems to have been the only goal of your posts since you started commenting on my posts. You've had nothing substantive to say in response to my view of the N900 camera app, all you're doing is attacking me personally.

I also don't see how criticizing the camera app in the N900 is "insulting" the Maemo developers. People have opinions in this forum about the N900, positive and negative. Are they only allowed to say positive things? Is this only a forum for fanboys? Are all critical comments of the N900 somehow tantamount to a personal insult to the developers? That makes no sense to me.

I also absolutely reject your false claim that I have insulted anyone posting in this thread. I have disagreed with people about the topic at hand vigorously, but I have never directed a comment personally toward any poster (such as you are doing toward my posts). Saying that I've insulted anyone is just slandering me and part of the apparent goal of your posts to personally attack me. All this just because you seem to have gotten tired of what I was saying about the N900 camera app (in a thread that I started).

It's astonishing to me that you're a moderator in this forum. All you've done is attack my posts and me personally. This is what moderators do? If you have something to say about the topic in this thread say it. Or start your own thread on the N900 camera app, if you don't like the direction this one has taken. Otherwise, I don't need to be attacked.

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jessi3k3	2009-11-30 , 20:10
Posts: 304 \| Thanked: 176 times \| Joined on Oct 2009	#96

Hmm, is it just me or does this video make anyone else cringe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZKPTXsKO8c

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cb474	2009-11-30 , 20:15
Posts: 203 \| Thanked: 68 times \| Joined on Oct 2009	#97

Yeah, the juddering, choppy video, which I guess comes from frames dropping, seems to be a consistent problem in all the samples I've seen. I feel like the higher resolution on the video is nice. But there's something a bit soft and fuzzy about the way it's being compressed also. I guess this is one of those things one can only hope gets fixed in updates.

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	qole	2009-11-30 , 20:34
	Moderator \| Posts: 7,109 \| Thanked: 8,820 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Vancouver, BC, Canada	#98

Originally Posted by cb474

I also don't see how criticizing the camera app in the N900 is "insulting" the Maemo developers. <snip insults to this forum> Are all critical comments of the N900 somehow tantamount to a personal insult to the developers? That makes no sense to me.

It is one thing to say that the camera app is lacking in features, or executes some of the features it has poorly. (I would actually agree with you if you just said that. Once. Or twice. Probably even if you said it three times.) It is another thing to repeatedly say that you feel that the developers rushed it out the door. You are no longer commenting on the application, you are commenting on the developers. See the difference?

Originally Posted by cb474

I also absolutely reject your false claim that I have insulted anyone posting in this thread.

Ok. That was an emotional, exaggerated overgeneralisation on my part.

See? I can admit when I do it.

Originally Posted by cb474

All this just because you seem to have gotten tired of what I was saying about the N900 camera app (in a thread that I started).

Thank you for starting this thread! But you don't own it. That's not how forums work.

Originally Posted by cb474

I don't need to be attacked.

Agreed. And as much as I like arguing with people on the Internet, I'll stop this offtopic bantering now. I'm not even sure why I snapped in this particular thread in this particular case. I should have gotten all snarky in one of those ten-billion-post "did your N900 ship yet" threads, to get lost in the steaming pile.

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cb474	2009-11-30 , 22:44
Posts: 203 \| Thanked: 68 times \| Joined on Oct 2009	#99

Originally Posted by qole

It is one thing to say that the camera app is lacking in features, or executes some of the features it has poorly. (I would actually agree with you if you just said that. Once. Or twice. Probably even if you said it three times.) It is another thing to repeatedly say that you feel that the developers rushed it out the door. You are no longer commenting on the application, you are commenting on the developers. See the difference?.

I was commenting on the impression that the state of the camera application, upon release, makes. It seems perfectly plausible that a device might be rushed to release. We all have seen, I assume, devices that are more and less polished upon release. I think the impression the state of the device's applications make upon release is a legitimate thing to comment on. That's a comment on the device, not on any person.

Also, what I repeatedly said was that the device seems rushed out the door, as far as the camera applications goes. I never referred to the developers specifically. So for all I know some developer somewhere was objecting to that state of things, but Nokia at the end of the day made a decision to go ahead for business or marketing reasons. Obviously the buck stops with Nokia and they are ultimately responsible for all the decisions made that lead to the release of the device, as well as for the state of the device upon release. So it's putting words in my mouth to say that I made any claim whatsoever about the developers. I never referred to the developers once or used the word "developer," when remarking that the camera application seems rushed out the door. In the exactly three places where I did use the word "developer," I was saying positive or neutral things about the developer community.

That said, I apologize if any developer responsible for the camera application felt insulted. It was not my intention. Please take a look at my posts themselves and not the ways they are misrepresented in responses to my posts.