What do scrollbars have to do with portrait mode? I want to be able to use my phone with one hand.

If youre advocating that kinetic scrolling is better than scrollbars for very long lists, then youre either a fool, or you have a different definition of "very long list" to most people

Go load 2000 songs into one list in media player and then flick through to T using kinetic. That's an RSI disaster waiting to happen.


The suggestion of having a slim scrollbar, but having the app scroll like a scrollbar when the thumb is NEAR IT, NOT necessarily ON ITis the best one; it solves the problem for the screen-real-estate whiners. Take a look at a Nokia 5800; when you flick the middle of the screen in Contacts, it scrolls kinetically, when you thumb on the side, the scroll bar lights up to show you've grabbed it, and then you can scroll properly


Honestly, if kinetic scrolling was so amazing, it would have appeared on PCs years ago (you don't need a touch screen to have kinetic scrolling). It makes sense in the case of a touchscreen ui, but it does not form a sensible replacement for a scroll bar

I just dont get it! there are guys re writing the whole system but there is noone who can make a scrollbar plugin?

If you load 2000 songs you'll be scrolling 100 songs with the tiniest gesture you make while you can only see 20 on the screen - the smallest drag would move so man songs so fast that it would be impossible to find anything at all.

The only thing a scrollbar is good for is to get you to a specific region of your list and if your list is too long, on a 3.5 screen you won't have any finesse at all.

The whole point of kinetic is:
a) 2 swipes, ultra fast scrolling and yet allowing you to see the first few characters so you always know where you are - some lists even show tou the letter you are on to.
b) 1 swipe aka not having to torture your finger with the tiny scroll bar buttons when the list is too big for a bar.

Do me a favor and THINK before posting rubbish. Take a 2000 page document and read through it by using only the scroll bar; let me know how many (10-20) pages you scroll at once.
Secondly "kinetic" exists "in a way" on PCs for ages - smart people call it scroll and it usually equals to a moderate swipe across the screen.
Third, office mice have actual kinetic where a middle click + scroll act like two very fast swipes and take you in a matter of seconds across whole documents.

If there was a contest for narrow minded people you'd win your weight in gold.

Now take a screwdriver and rip that wheel of your mouse for a few days, see how "comfy" it is

This picture shows exactly how the tiniest move of a 2000DPI laser mouse on a scrollbar in a 2000-page document moves 20 pages at once.
If you'd try to do this with your finger you would probably scroll 50+ pages at once.
Solutions:
1) click the tiny arrows
2) click the keyboard
3) use an android scroll wheel
4) stop whining about kinetic, it's here to stay.

OK, no need to get flamey. I don't think anyone is suggesting that a scrollbar REPLACES kinetic scrolling. Just that kinetic scrolling cannot replace a scrollbar.

The only way I can see for kinetic scrolling to replace a scrollbar would be if each successive swipe could accelerate the scroll speed; ie there is no upper limit on the scroll speed. That could work. Anything else will require a scrollbar to be usable for arbitrarily long lists.

@Bec

Really no need to get rude. But let me tell you again

Having 7000 images and you tell me to get to the top it takes me 2 minutes to get from the bottom to the top.

So thats not realy convenient. With a scrollbar you could have the super fast kinetic scrolling by just draging tha bar all the way up and down to get in the neighborhood of where you want to go.

You might want to try this yourself and you know what I talk about.

Regards Markus

You can indeed go precisely to top/bottom but while in the middle of the page you will scroll (shall we say) 20 rows at once while your screen only displays 3.

Swiping quick 3-4 times will instantly get you at the bottom (see in app-manager) so kinetic can replace a scrollbar while a scrollbar can't replace kinetic since you will not have any possibility to scroll slow enough if your list gets too long.

Sorry for being jumpy

Yes that rather is the point of using a scrollbar; to move quickly through a long list; bigger jumps

Now youre beginning to understand how kinetic cannot replace a scrollbar

Still going to take minutes to get to the bottom of the list though, isn't it?

Hypocrisy, man!

Where did I say "only a scrollbar"

Hypocrisy, man! Youre out there spouting off that kinetic can perfectly replace scrollbars, and I say "no, it cant" - exactly how does that then make my hypothesis that "scrollbars can replace kinetic"? Are there only two states to your logic?

So when you install the drivers for a mouse with a wheel, howcome it doesnt hide all the windows scrollbars? Because more forward thinking people than you have considered the fact that one is not a suitable replacement for the other. If anything history shows a scrollbar is more useful than a wheel. Please see your earlier narrowminded comment

I'm touched and agogue that you went to all that effort, for me.. I do understand your point but I remain of the opinion that kinetic cannot replace a scrollbar, and that the two are complementary technologies, even on a finger operated device. If I had to choose which one to ditch, I'd ditch kinetic and stick with scrollbars - did you forget that dragging the scroll slider is not the only interaction you can have with a scroller?

@Bec

QUOTE

Swiping quick 3-4 times will instantly get you at the bottom (see in app-manager) so kinetic can replace a scrollbar while a scrollbar can't replace kinetic since you will not have any possibility to scroll slow enough if your list gets too long.

UNQOTE

1) This might be true in app-manager BUT NOT if you have 2000 songs or 7000 photos!!!!! TRY IT - PLEASE (sorry if I get jumpy ;-)

2) Quote - click the tiny arrows - Unquote. The problem is that you can only click on the tiny arrows in word because you have a ........ scrollbar :-)

If you look at my brainstrom you will see that

a) space for a scrollbar is reserved allready
b) I proposed a solution with tiny arrows (thanks for backing up my idea) that would take you all the way up and down on with a douple click/tab.

3) Nobody has anything against kinetic scrolling. Nobody wants to replace the kintetic scrolling. We are talking about scrollbar in addition to kinetic scrolling!

Think of it like having an AC as well as the option to roll down the window in your car. You would not argue that AC is enough and you don't need to be able to open the window or vice versa - right?

You might want to look at my Brainstrom here: http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...tic_scrolling/

You might want to note the title: ADD Scrollbar in addition to kinetic scrolling.

Regards Markus

People, take deep breaths and calm down!