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woody14619 is offline woody14619
2010-07-14 , 22:31
Posts: 1,455 | Thanked: 3,309 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Rochester, NY
#61
Originally Posted by imperiallight View Post
Lets keep it simple for you:

* Needs to last a day (any OS) at that screen size, ideally always connected use for comparison
* Thin and light
* Fanless or Solid state
Lets see... The iPad doesn't last a day, so even by your own standards it's not in the running? But even with that there are several tablet PCs that can do what you're asking.

My Toshiba Point 510, running windows 98, with a solid-state drive in it (which is the only "hardware mod" I've done). It runs IE6 and Opera fine, plays MP3s, has no fans, runs 20 hours on its battery pack, and has a 7x9 display screen. It does weight a little more than the iPad (about twice as much) and is a little slower, but it's not bad for something made 10+ years ago.

There are plenty of other devices on the market, all of which have far better specs than the iPad. Does the iPad have a hot-swappable battery pack for continuous operation? No. Does the iPad have full Obex-style bluetooth functionality? No. Does the iPad have a shock-mount case? No. Does the iPad have a physical or virtual attachment system to allow it to dock and be used with a real keyboard/mouse and other hardware? No. Does it have USB or wireless USB/PNP support? No. Does it have speech recognition and transcription built in? No. All features of the tablets I've linked to here, all made in the past year.

And that's not even looking at "popular computers" like the Averatec line, or Compacs TC1000 or TC1100. (Or Nokia's 7X0/8X0 line.) There are lots of options out there if you're not Mac centric, all of which have better hardware and are more open when it comes to upgrading and installing 3rd party software.

Originally Posted by ysss View Post
care to back this up?
I have several workmates that have iPads, my officemate brings his in every day and leaves it plugged in most of the time, because if he didn't it would be dead by the end of the day. All of them have said they get, at best, about 6 to 7 hours out of it for usage before it needs a charge.

Originally Posted by ysss View Post
I'm seeing A LOT of ipad fans and it's their first apple 'computer'. their previous apple branded products were ipods. marketing/hype can jumpstart something but to sustain items you need more than just hype.
We're not in disagreement. I've yet to see the "sustainability" you speak of. I saw a lot of initial sales, and a trickling down after that. The jumpstart happened. I'm predicting it's the sustain part that's going to fail.

Originally Posted by ysss View Post
I've been looking for a good slate since panasonic cf01 and a few fujitsu stylistics; then tablet pcs and a few umpc. those were all just keyboard-less (and underpowered) laptops.
And the iPad isn't? Everything I've seen has shown that's exactly what it is: something to do light browsing and email reading on. Replying to email on it is painful, and it lacks the power to visit many sites (which is why I suspect in part it didn't get Flash, as the hacked version with it I've seen have all reviewed as Flash being very slow).

Again, I'm not against the iPad. For some people, they could use an iPad and be totally happy. (My folks would probably love an iPad, come to think of it.) And I'm happy that the OP is pleased by his device. I'm just noting that the only thing "new" about the iPad is it's marketing. The technology has been around a long time. It's just been packaged and sold in a different way, one which is less flexible and therefore less appealing to me in particular.
 

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imperiallight is offline imperiallight
2010-07-14 , 22:35
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#62
I wish there was a worthy contender to the iPhone4 with a qwerty-slider.
Dedicated slider keyboard cases will come out.

I bought this till then (same size as iphone) but its rubbish to use.

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imperiallight is offline imperiallight
2010-07-14 , 22:48
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#63
Lets see... The iPad doesn't last a day, so even by your own standards it's not in the running?
10 hours is for continuous WIFI use yeah? Not what it wouldn't last for longer without it.

But even with that there are several tablet PCs that can do what you're asking.
No there aren't. No glorified laptop can do what the ipad can do... because it is its own class of product. Paper thin, always connected. Read stipulations from previous post.

My Toshiba Point 510, running windows 98, with a solid-state drive in it (which is the only "hardware mod" I've done). It runs IE6 and Opera fine, plays MP3s, has no fans, runs 20 hours on its battery pack, and has a 7x9 display screen. It does weight a little more than the iPad (about twice as much) and is a little slower, but it's not bad for something made 10+ years ago.
Great but it is not a mass market competitor of the ipad.

There are plenty of other devices on the market, all of which have far better specs than the iPad. Does the iPad have a hot-swappable battery pack for continuous operation? No. Does the iPad have full Obex-style bluetooth functionality? No. Does the iPad have a shock-mount case? No. Does the iPad have a physical or virtual attachment system to allow it to dock and be used with a real keyboard/mouse and other hardware? No. Does it have USB or wireless USB/PNP support? No. Does it have speech recognition and transcription built in? No. All features of the tablets I've linked to here, all made in the past year.
lol, this is missing the point of the ipad. Its a highly mobile surfer and reader and games machine. Most of these features listed would preclude myself from getting the ipad either (if I was to carry it in my bag) but thats not to say Apple haven't created their own arena for a product. The technology might have been there but the product certainly hasn't.

Only something like the Archos 9 is comparable from yesteryear and that has only a few hours battery life.
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Last edited by imperiallight; 2010-07-14 at 23:02.
 
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woody14619 is offline woody14619
2010-07-14 , 23:07
Posts: 1,455 | Thanked: 3,309 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Rochester, NY
#64
Originally Posted by imperiallight View Post
10 hours is for continuous WIFI use yeah? Not what it wouldn't last for longer without it.
And what exactly would you do on an iPad without wifi? Play Bejewled? Yippie. I can do that on my 6230, which has a 3 to 7 day battery life. I win?

Originally Posted by imperiallight View Post
No there aren't. No glorified laptop can do what the ipad can do... because it is its own class of product.
You say this despite the fact that I just linked to several that can do everything the iPad can do, and more? De Nile is nice this time of year, isn't it? You're just showing your Apple fan-boy stripes... making any further reply pointless. (But I'll finish this one, since I'm in the editor as it is...)

Originally Posted by imperiallight View Post
Great but it is not a mass market competitor of the ipad.
It was in 1996... when it was mass produced. What? You think Toshiba made one specially for me? I go it second hand as a surplus item when the local hospital upgraded it's computer system. They had hundreds of them, and were using them as medical tablets over a decade before the idea of the iPad was even conceived. They were mass produced and sold to a pretty sizable market, just not one you worked in at the time.

Originally Posted by imperiallight View Post
lol, this is missing the point of the ipad. Its a highly mobile surfer and reader and games machine.
Yes, it's a limited use item, and as such would not normally do nearly as well in the market place were it not for the fact that it had an i in front of it's name. Thanks for making my point for me, again.

Originally Posted by imperiallight View Post
Only something like the Archos 9 is comparable from yesteryear and that has only a few hours battery life.
So I just linked like 5 different machines, all of which met the criteria you asked for, all made in the past couple years, and you're still convinced there's only one pre-existing machine that doesn't qualify because of battery life? You are delusional...

You asked for specific examples, I gave them. Deny it all you want, but reality is on my side here. All the devices I linked to above meet your specs or exceeded them, and already exist or have existed for a long while now. There are plenty more where that came from. The iPad is nothing new, and it's only done as well as it has because of Apple branding and rabid fanboys like you. The proof is in your own posts...

Good night!
 
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ysss is offline ysss
2010-07-15 , 03:55
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#65
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
I have several workmates that have iPads, my officemate brings his in every day and leaves it plugged in most of the time, because if he didn't it would be dead by the end of the day. All of them have said they get, at best, about 6 to 7 hours out of it for usage before it needs a charge.
Did he say that or you assumed that's the case because he leave his device tethered when it's near a charging station?

Btw, the 10 hours claim is for the WIFI version; which as we all know, usually rated in optimal conditions (low brightness settings, strong wifi signals, etc). Even if we take that into consideration, the actual use of 8-9 hours is still damn close to the marketing claims (it's off by 10-20% at most) compared to the numbers thrown by notebook manufacturers (usually 20-40%).

So did your friend got the WiFi or 3G version? Apple claims about 1 hour reduction for the 3G version.

We're not in disagreement. I've yet to see the "sustainability" you speak of. I saw a lot of initial sales, and a trickling down after that. The jumpstart happened. I'm predicting it's the sustain part that's going to fail.
I'm not sure where you're getting the numbers... I'm seeing the indications going the other way. It hasn't trickled down yet up to now. Especially since they haven't even run their full worldwide distribution yet due to unexpected level of demand in the current markets.

I'm also doubting the quick drop in demand because there aren't any directly competing product in the market yet, especially if Android tablets won't take the market in full force waiting for their version 3.

By 'directly competing' I meant: ARM based, finger optimized OS, finger optimized apps. Because the x86 win-based solutions have been around for ages and it's clear why they're failing (too big/heavy, short battery life, mouse optimized interface, desktop-optimized OS).

And the iPad isn't? Everything I've seen has shown that's exactly what it is: something to do light browsing and email reading on. Replying to email on it is painful, and it lacks the power to visit many sites (which is why I suspect in part it didn't get Flash, as the hacked version with it I've seen have all reviewed as Flash being very slow).
I guess we all will always just see what we want to see. But seriously, the 'light browsing and email' is spot on; no one should want to replace their desktop or notebook or smartphone with a tablet. It falls right in between all those. I use mine during long commutes (plane rides mostly) and short trips so I can travel light.

If you plan to do some serious typing on it, then get a bluetooth keyboard to use with it. I bring a foldable stowaway keyboard on those trips.

As for 'the power to visit many sites', all I can think of that iPads are missing are 'some second tier video sites' and 'flash games'. Which may differ in relevance and importance to many people.

Again, I'm not against the iPad. For some people, they could use an iPad and be totally happy. (My folks would probably love an iPad, come to think of it.) And I'm happy that the OP is pleased by his device. I'm just noting that the only thing "new" about the iPad is it's marketing. The technology has been around a long time. It's just been packaged and sold in a different way, one which is less flexible and therefore less appealing to me in particular.
The 'new' thing that iPad brought that will help its market adoption:
- Marketing and branding

The 'new' thing that iPad brought that will help its sustainability (until it's challenged by Android):
- UI (and all its usability pluses: form factor, ARM advantage, etc)

Sure, the technology has been around for a long long time; but there are infinite ways to repackage and resell them 'in a different way'. Check out Android's very early preview and see how they compare to current Android's iteration. Notice anything?
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vivainio is offline vivainio
2010-07-15 , 05:58
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#66
Originally Posted by ysss View Post
I'm also doubting the quick drop in demand because there aren't any directly competing product in the market yet, especially if Android tablets won't take the market in full force waiting for their version 3.
Yeah, for better or worse iPad is inevitably going to own 2010.

Whether we like it or not, denying this is insane.

By 'directly competing' I meant: ARM based, finger optimized OS, finger optimized apps.
Moorestown would do the trick as well.

As for 'the power to visit many sites', all I can think of that iPads are missing are 'some second tier video sites' and 'flash games'.
Does "second tier" mean pornography here? I guess that could still be a priority for many customers (it has been known to make or break technologies before).
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2010-07-15 , 06:16
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#67
n900's not for everyone, and we're not bound by 1 product. In most cases if people asked me to referr a phone to them, it would most likely be a iphone or something else. I love my n900, but i'm pretty sure i'll just frustrate most people leaving them complaining to me about how it doesn't do this or that
 

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doksng is offline doksng
2010-07-15 , 08:50
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#68
Originally Posted by jaysire View Post
I got an iPad too. It was with a small amount of sadness, that I recently noticed my N900 battery life had improved immensely. This is because I've started using the iPad for MANY of the things that I previously used the N900 for.

In my opinion, the iPad easily defeats the N900 in the following areas: Any kind of reading and gaming. It's not much, when you express it that way, but it's 90% of what I used to do with my N900. Reading books, reading magazines, reading web pages, rss -feeds, comics, mail. The iPad is just perfect for that.

On the other hand, anything that requires text input is heaps easier on the N900 (at least for me). Writing mail, chatting, unix sysadmin stuff. Even though the keyboard on the iPad screen is huge, a physical keyboard beats it every time.

It's not so much about what the N900 CAN do, but what you ACTUALLY do with it. I used to browse the web a lot on the N900 and now, I would be stupid to do it, since I have the iPad with a much better screen, much better zooming, much better loading speeds. Trying to read comics or magazines on the N900 is... well, impossible for me. The content would just be way too small.

On the other hand, I will still be using my N900 for writing (longer) emails, chatting, multitasking, camera, portable music player with bluetooth speakers, any mobile internet ...

I'd be lying though, if I said I hadn't thought about getting the iPhone4. The software is just so much more polished. I don't care about the apps - they are like extras in a movie to me - not really that relevant, but the thing that irritates me most about the N900 is the unpolishedness of the basic apps: mail, browser, media player, maps, calendar. Absolutely love the task switcher with the cards, though. I don't think that will ever be beaten. I wish there was a worthy contender to the iPhone4 with a qwerty-slider.
If I get your post correctly most of the advantages you have listed here are due to the larger screen of the Ipad compared to the N900.
 
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F2thaK is offline F2thaK
2010-07-15 , 09:03
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#69
Why I bought an iPad.... as Im a *****.

(sorry OP, not having a go at you.. I just had too)
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jaysire is offline jaysire
2010-07-15 , 09:28
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#70
Originally Posted by doksng View Post
If I get your post correctly most of the advantages you have listed here are due to the larger screen of the Ipad compared to the N900.
You get me correctly. And then there's the snappiness in scrolling, zooming, as well as what I perceive to be a more polished and perhaps unified user experience.
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