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Porting apps to Leste (29)
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Install Fonts in N900 (68)
to Maemo 5 / Fremantle by teroyk - 6 days, 22 hrs ago - more...
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2010-07-29
, 19:28
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Posts: 5,335 |
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Joined on Mar 2007
@ Pennsylvania, USA
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#162
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Originally Posted by johnel
Forking everything to lock APIs at a given level discards the advantages of rapid, open development happening upstream. Maemo has wandered partially down that path several times already--with GTK, with being "Debian-based", etc.--and the going has always grown rapidly tougher as distance from the beaten path increased. As nice as it is to let users keep old applications from vendors long gone, binary compatibility leads to nightmares like Haiku's hybrid gcc2/gcc4 system.
If maemo kept some kind of backwards compatibility Nokia would be in a better position to compete.
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2010-07-29
, 20:47
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Posts: 4,672 |
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Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#163
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Originally Posted by ndi
And that's my stance--I learned that despite the positive experience of having what at least FELT like an open GNU/Linux Maemo device in my paws, it was always the NOKIA end of things that ruined it for me every time. From the closed components and closed drivers, to the boggling array of closed APPLICATIONS that have no business being closed-source on such a device, to the customer service, to the lack of support and accessories, and so on and so on.
Normally, I'd say no, because frankly I'm a bit bitter. But to be fair, the device did me no wrong, neither did the open OS. Has limitations, but they all do, so - oh well.
But I know that sooner rather than later I'll hold some next next generation device in hand, it'll be slick black, sturdy, keyboard, a splendid screen and features that make me all warm and fuzzy inside and I'll cave.
Like every time before now. Every device this far from Nokia has gotten me so worked up I'd punch someone if I knew that would fix it. And every time it's time to upgrade, the best, shiniest, most feature-full, classy device out there money can buy has a Nokia logo on it.
And then we go again.
It's too late for me. Go ... on ... without ... me ...
If they fixed their hostility toward customers, I might consider them again. Under the current circumstances, even if they released a wonderful piece of hardware, I don't think I could trust the Nokia brand.
I'd give anyone else a chance at my purchase of a MeeGo device before Nokia because they ruined their relationship with me (and seemingly, many others).
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2010-07-29
, 20:57
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Posts: 2,050 |
Thanked: 1,425 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#164
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Originally Posted by sjgadsby
Wouldn't this be mitigated partially or completely by an emulation system, partial or final? I have little clue about how this work really on Linux. but back here an app declares its intent to use a certain major revision of an API and, depending on said revision, libraries are remapped for that app so it can continue to run.
Forking everything to lock APIs at a given level discards the advantages of rapid, open development happening upstream.
The only drawbacks this far are larger disk usage of the OS (all versions are stored in a flat storage system) and larger memory usage (copies of the same lib but different versions are kept).
Still, at the rate hardware progresses, duplicating a few libs isn't going to kill anyone.
How wrong am I?
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N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
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N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
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2010-07-29
, 21:00
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Posts: 365 |
Thanked: 98 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#165
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I would. But when my N900 dies I'll most likely go with whatever Android or iOS4 device is top dawg hardware wise.
I got the N900 to be as much a PC in my pocket as possible, and to that end it has shined magnificently. And while I can do literally everything I want with the N900, I can also do them on an iPhone or Android phone.
Heck it might even be a windows 7 phone, but not likely, as so far I don't like their UI, and the fact that cut and paste and multitasking is gimped, I will probably stay away until MS has refined it some.
If I had to get a new phone now, it would be a toss up between the Droid X, the Incredible, and the iPhone 4. I would really like a hardware KB but it's clear that no new phone rocking the most current hardware will be sporting them most likely in the future.
2d
I got the N900 to be as much a PC in my pocket as possible, and to that end it has shined magnificently. And while I can do literally everything I want with the N900, I can also do them on an iPhone or Android phone.
Heck it might even be a windows 7 phone, but not likely, as so far I don't like their UI, and the fact that cut and paste and multitasking is gimped, I will probably stay away until MS has refined it some.
If I had to get a new phone now, it would be a toss up between the Droid X, the Incredible, and the iPhone 4. I would really like a hardware KB but it's clear that no new phone rocking the most current hardware will be sporting them most likely in the future.
2d
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2010-07-29
, 21:06
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Posts: 2,050 |
Thanked: 1,425 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#166
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I'll never go iWhatever, mainly because their stick up there is even thicker than Nokia's. Android has basically the same issues as we do, plus a few more. Might go for Windows, though. Seems to be a balance between looks and features from far away.
Also, what do you mean multi-tasking gimped? I missed that. Reference?
Also, what do you mean multi-tasking gimped? I missed that. Reference?
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N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
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N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
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2010-07-29
, 21:06
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Posts: 288 |
Thanked: 196 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ London
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#167
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Well said my friend, well said. If I were Anssi, I will consider the opinion of those around here though. Nokia has v smart staunch loyalists and should take advantage of them.
This is gonna sound rather bad, but this isn't where the "fight back" starts in my opinion.
We're enthusiasts, some of us are fans, some of us are dedicated. But what the TMO group represents is a group of highly intelligent folks that can understand the processor type, RAM amount, OS type and licensing model for that open source OS and actually understand it. Nokia doesn't need to truly win us over; they have to produce a product that will do what we've come to expect from our internet tablets/smartphones.
Who really needs convincing are the sheep, the iPhone users, the not too savvy folks that only go by "ooh, new shiny" and buy that way without regards to what the product may/may not do and have never looked at a line of code, have no clue what a terminal is and ultimately will never tinker with a phone other than adding a new case to their phone.
With that said, Nokia needs to get into public's view via proper marketing. Virals... Nokia you just don't get them, so never try it again. If it happens by mistake, chalk it up to being a fluke, but don't try to do it. Can't capture lightning in a bottle.
Nokia needs to create a product that the public will know, understand and adopt. I had a 80 year grandmother today tell me why she used an Android phone. She pushed up images to Facebook to share with her grandchildren - and did so without any help. She then saw that I had an iPhone and said that was her second choice. Ease of use is something that has to be told to folks... and it has to be real.
Imagine where Nokia MeeGo becomes an option to somebody like that. That's where Nokia needs to fight back. And do so in North America and in other countries.
Just talked to a friend in Guangzhou and she said that the Android phones, as well as iPhone were considered more elite, some RMB 8000 or so for those phones. The Nokia phones were the next step down, but were considered for "normal" folks. They're much less pricier, still carry some status though. But have dropped in status in the last few years.
The "fight back" needs to happen with people not like us here at TMO. But it needs to start very damn soon or else more slipping in terms of mindshare.
Wait a minute , your 80 yr old grandmother rocking Android ? wow
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2010-07-29
, 21:15
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#168
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Originally Posted by ndi
Microsoft recently decided to remove multitasking from their Windows Mobile 7 phones in the erroneous impression that it will make their phones seem to work faster/better and more reliably, all while the rest of the handset OS's are moving TOWARD being able to multitask.
I'll never go iWhatever, mainly because their stick up there is even thicker than Nokia's. Android has basically the same issues as we do, plus a few more. Might go for Windows, though. Seems to be a balance between looks and features from far away.
Also, what do you mean multi-tasking gimped? I missed that. Reference?
Oh Microsoft. You're just ADORABLE sometimes.
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2010-07-29
, 21:56
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Posts: 2,050 |
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Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#170
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From what I read here is that they send a WM_CLOSE equivalent to the app, which has an undetermined (yet) time to swap down. This means that it's a high-level function. In order to save or close, the OS has to multi-task, otherwise no timeslices for the bg app.
Also, from what I read, it's not that they don't multitask, it's just that they whitelist apps. That is, some apps that take little resources will have the feature, while massive apps will pause everything else to maintain performance, save for internet and audio (which still work).
It's not a bad idea. Plus, it's a checkbox somewhere. It's not like it's missing support so it kills the platform. The way I understand it, the "feature" is temporary until they can maintain a good user experience which is a priority for WM7, which suggests they plan on unlocking the beast during this version's lifespan.
Frankly, if I have audio, web, mail and a few others multi-task, plus services, it's not a killer. Plus, it's very, very likely it can be fixed 3rd party if MS becomes difficult.
Also, from what I read, it's not that they don't multitask, it's just that they whitelist apps. That is, some apps that take little resources will have the feature, while massive apps will pause everything else to maintain performance, save for internet and audio (which still work).
It's not a bad idea. Plus, it's a checkbox somewhere. It's not like it's missing support so it kills the platform. The way I understand it, the "feature" is temporary until they can maintain a good user experience which is a priority for WM7, which suggests they plan on unlocking the beast during this version's lifespan.
Frankly, if I have audio, web, mail and a few others multi-task, plus services, it's not a killer. Plus, it's very, very likely it can be fixed 3rd party if MS becomes difficult.
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N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
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But I know that sooner rather than later I'll hold some next next generation device in hand, it'll be slick black, sturdy, keyboard, a splendid screen and features that make me all warm and fuzzy inside and I'll cave.
Like every time before now. Every device this far from Nokia has gotten me so worked up I'd punch someone if I knew that would fix it. And every time it's time to upgrade, the best, shiniest, most feature-full, classy device out there money can buy has a Nokia logo on it.
And then we go again.
It's too late for me. Go ... on ... without ... me ...
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.