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2011-03-14
, 06:16
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#72
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
My friend please read this:
Even your update post seems to include figures lifted from wikipedia (or thin air). Example, imagination states the SGX543MP triangle througput at 35Mpolys/sec not 140M (number of cores not mentioned).
http://www.imgtec.com/news/Release/index.asp?NewsID=428 (below the lists)
The benchmarks seem to confirm this.
http://www.imgtec.com/news/release/index.asp?newsid=449
Imgtec create the chips, and they claim with double the cores you roughly double the power. They claim the quadcore model delivers ~133M PPS. So the dualcore (SGX543MP2) must be at least 67M PPS. Which means the solo-core SGX543 should be at least 34M PPS. See how it compliments your previous link?
But 67MPPS is awefully low, considering the 543 has some advantages over the 540 and its dual-core, would mean theoretically is should be above 180MPPS (Imgtec's claim). So somewhere Imgtec stuffed up (I believe it was in the announcement of the SGX540's performance). But have a look at these raw figures:
Apple claims x9 the grunt which would mean: 273MPPS
Benchmarked against the iPad, it should be: 148MPPS
Benchmarked against the XOOM, it should be: 153MPPS
Anadtech's benchmark overall would put it: 202MPPS
So if I had to guestimate with all of these figures floating around, I would say 130-150MPPS (more closer to 150M).
So yeah, I did my homework but what grade I get won't be known until several months from now. By the way CC, I'm interested in what you believe the PPS for the SGX543MP2 is.
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
I do remember that, but don't eat your hat ... its a nice hat!
Do you remember when I said that "if the iPad 2 had a retina display, I'd eat my hat?"
This reinforced a valuable lesson; Just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean that it can't be done.
Couldn't agree more, we must think of time as progressive rather than cyclic if we are to believe in change.
Last edited by Kangal; 2011-03-14 at 06:20.
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2011-03-14
, 09:11
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Posts: 4,384 |
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Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#73
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
lol, yeah I remember that... and I also called it out that Jobs could've alluded that 'retina display' for tablet devices will have different resolution density than their smartphone counterpart due to the effective usage distance.
@ysss: wherever he may be
Do you remember when I said that "if the iPad 2 had a retina display, I'd eat my hat?" This was based on the knowledge that desktops/laptops have trouble pushing these resolutions and I assumed accomplishing this with a mobile was unlikely.
Well, as it turns out, the display isn't retina-class, but I'm going to eat my hat anyhow, because this years GPU technology (SGX543/Mali400/Adreno220) are all capable of pushing 'retina' resolutions, even if it hasn't been yet been embodied in a device. I'm eating said hat because my very reasons for doubting its inclusion was flat-out wrong.
This reinforced a valuable lesson that I had forgotten in that instance. Just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean that it can't be done.
Pass the butter...
So it was probable for Jobs to launch a 10" 1080p tablet and still call it a 'retina display'.. (though I've no idea how cheap/available were 10" 1080p screens).
You know Jobs... he would dance around the audience (and facts) like a snake charmer and screw us all from behind...
(and everybody will still be smiling all the while)
ps: i'm witholding the butter, cause I don't want you to eat the hat... uncooked
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Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
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2011-03-14
, 09:48
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Posts: 3,524 |
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Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#74
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Originally Posted by Kangal
Ah, thanks for the source. And my apologies for the rude message.
My friend please read this:
http://www.imgtec.com/news/release/index.asp?newsid=449
Looking back, I'm rather ashamed at my behaviour. Just one of those days I suppose.
Originally Posted by Kangal
Indeed. One thing I've learned not to be ashamed of mistakes. How can a person grow if he/she doesn't admit to themselves when they've been wrong?
I do remember that, but don't eat your hat ... its a nice hat!
Couldn't agree more, we must think of time as progressive rather than cyclic if we are to believe in change.
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2011-03-14
, 11:10
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Posts: 1,789 |
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Joined on Mar 2010
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#75
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
Nah, man I sort of know your character, tis all good, nothing to be ashamed of. I do wonder what kind of chips will come after the next-gen-next (??), you know the ones thats supposed to run Windows Next (aka version 8).
Ah, thanks for the source. And my apologies for the rude message.
Looking back, I'm rather ashamed at my behaviour. Just one of those days I suppose.
Indeed. One thing I've learned not to be ashamed of mistakes. How can a person grow if he/she doesn't admit to themselves when they've been wrong?
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2011-03-14
, 13:02
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Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#76
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Originally Posted by Kangal
After the next generation, mobile processors will start to compete with intel's desktop/notebook offerings. While the performance is not going to be 100% congruent, the OSs and APIs available will extremely efficiently utilize the feature sets of the SoCs, which seem to be far more creative in implementation as they can forgo years of legacy baggage and complexity that the x86 arch is toting around. Best of all, all of this will be done at extremely low power.
Nah, man I sort of know your character, tis all good, nothing to be ashamed of. I do wonder what kind of chips will come after the next-gen-next (??), you know the ones thats supposed to run Windows Next (aka version 8).
For example:
A big push among mobile chipset makers is OpenCL integration. This allows for the GPU to be used in a general way in applications for crunching computationally intense tasks. OpenCL can be used for real-time video editing, image processing, calculations, etc, or many other compute heavy tasks -- in a highly efficient way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL
Simply put, I think that in ~2 years mobile SoCs will be able to compete on a performance level with full-fledged entry level laptops and computers (well beyond ATOM). Weather you're using CAD, or editing video/audio, it will be possible on the coming generation of mobile SoCs.
Interestingly, Imagination, makers of the aforementioned SGX543MP, has announced that their SGX5xx line will support openCL (1.0) with new, upcoming drivers!
http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=610
Apple made a bang-on decision going with Imagination; they have a proven track record, and are simply ahead of the competition. For example, reference designs of ARMs next-gen Mali T604 have *just* begun to make their way into the hands of OEMs, meaning that Mali will only start to compete in around 2 years in regards to OpenCL.*
* this information comes from an interview with Jim Davies (VP of technology in the Media Processing Division of ARM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccsqedOeF_M
I'm not aware of another SoC on the market that has OpenCL support.
Microsoft's Win8 strategy will be interesting. I'm guessing that they are going to offer some form of backward compatibility, likely by porting all of their APIs and translating x86 code to ARM code automatically on the platform. The Win8 APIs will likely center around C# and the Common Language Runtime for portability to other architectures. But it's only a guess!
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2011-03-14
, 16:03
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@ Westside
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#77
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"will ship in 3-4 weeks"... WTF dude. Does this mean that after I hit "place order" button, someone at Apple picked up a phone and called Foxconn in Longhua, China - you know everything is made by Foxconn. Everything. - to let them know they can start building me one?
Not that I was going to wait outside an Apple Store for 9 hours just to get one. I mean it's cool and all but it is just a f***in tablet, not the cure for cancer.
Can't wait. Wait, yes I can.
Last edited by frostbyte; 2011-03-14 at 16:07.
Not that I was going to wait outside an Apple Store for 9 hours just to get one. I mean it's cool and all but it is just a f***in tablet, not the cure for cancer.
Can't wait. Wait, yes I can.
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[ArchLinux|OpenBox blissness]
"The Cake Is A Lie"
[ArchLinux|OpenBox blissness]
"The Cake Is A Lie"
Last edited by frostbyte; 2011-03-14 at 16:07.
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2011-03-14
, 19:05
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Posts: 3,524 |
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Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#78
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It seems that the iPad may have some non-tegra Android competition after all.
A mysterious HTC tablet has seemingly popped on to the map.
If it's anything like the maddeningly-delayed thunderbolt and the playbook, it may house the MSM8660: a dual-core snapdragon (scorpion cores) at a blistering 1.2GHz and a very powerful Adreno 220 GPU from the once popular ATI (bought out by Qualcomm).
http://androidandme.com/2011/02/news...dreno-220-gpu/
http://www.qualcomm.com/videos/snapd...inds-game-demo (1080p in stereo -- framerate unknown)
Details on the GPU are sparse, but I suspect it will blow the pants off of the T20 and roughly compare to the SGX543MP in performance.
Last edited by Capt'n Corrupt; 2011-03-14 at 19:24.
A mysterious HTC tablet has seemingly popped on to the map.
If it's anything like the maddeningly-delayed thunderbolt and the playbook, it may house the MSM8660: a dual-core snapdragon (scorpion cores) at a blistering 1.2GHz and a very powerful Adreno 220 GPU from the once popular ATI (bought out by Qualcomm).
http://androidandme.com/2011/02/news...dreno-220-gpu/
http://www.qualcomm.com/videos/snapd...inds-game-demo (1080p in stereo -- framerate unknown)
Details on the GPU are sparse, but I suspect it will blow the pants off of the T20 and roughly compare to the SGX543MP in performance.
Last edited by Capt'n Corrupt; 2011-03-14 at 19:24.
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2011-03-15
, 12:28
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#79
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
Okay, so this is a bit complex discussion here - it's true that OpenCL is not (yet) widely adopted outside the Apple world - but that's not really a surprise as OpenCL originated from Apple in the first place. Keep in mind that there *are* competing solutions and approaches for the exact same problem, so when saying Apple is winning by being the major OpenCL backer you also imply that OpenCL itself is going to win (the jury is still out on that one). For example TI OMAPs include DSPs and streaming extensions that do very nifty stuff you mentioned above as target use-cases for OpenCL on very-very low power (in plain English, as I said in another thread - no self-respecting ARM SoC does video/image processing on the CPU anyway).
A big push among mobile chipset makers is OpenCL integration. This allows for the GPU to be used in a general way in applications for crunching computationally intense tasks. OpenCL can be used for real-time video editing, image processing, calculations, etc, or many other compute heavy tasks -- in a highly efficient way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL
...
I'm not aware of another SoC on the market that has OpenCL support.
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2011-03-15
, 14:07
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Posts: 279 |
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Joined on Apr 2010
@ Holland
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#80
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I don't particulary like the way modern technology and innovation is applied in today's market.
First, the trend used to be like this: New gadgets such as smartphones were striving to be more like a pc. Nowadays companies such as Apple bring new divices to the market wich most people don't really need, for mostly simple tasks such as email, reading, web, simple gaming. Some functions work more conveniantly than on a smartphone or pc, but it's still not much more pockatable than a notebook (wich can do alot more). By smart marketing they create a new category of products that is appealing and will sell to end-users and you know why it sells don't you? Pc-like striving is still there, but the simpeler devices sell better.
This leads to my second point, the populatity rules the market and therefore heists innovation (sort of). Companies smell money and invest in such a category, trying to benefit from the rising market. New and good hardware is put in devices that don't really need it, and often in a closed ecosystem. This disappoints me, where I'd rather see good hardware put to its maximum use, preferably in an open envoirment. Open-sourse will never disappear, but because popularity rules we will first see innovative hardware on (partially) closed platforms, leaving the unpopular open-source products to follow in its footsteps with often outdated specs.
Thats why I love the N900, its a rare case of good (up to date) hardware matching a unique piece of open software. That does not happen very often, that's why I'd love to see MeeGo evolve and actually hit the market.
First, the trend used to be like this: New gadgets such as smartphones were striving to be more like a pc. Nowadays companies such as Apple bring new divices to the market wich most people don't really need, for mostly simple tasks such as email, reading, web, simple gaming. Some functions work more conveniantly than on a smartphone or pc, but it's still not much more pockatable than a notebook (wich can do alot more). By smart marketing they create a new category of products that is appealing and will sell to end-users and you know why it sells don't you? Pc-like striving is still there, but the simpeler devices sell better.
This leads to my second point, the populatity rules the market and therefore heists innovation (sort of). Companies smell money and invest in such a category, trying to benefit from the rising market. New and good hardware is put in devices that don't really need it, and often in a closed ecosystem. This disappoints me, where I'd rather see good hardware put to its maximum use, preferably in an open envoirment. Open-sourse will never disappear, but because popularity rules we will first see innovative hardware on (partially) closed platforms, leaving the unpopular open-source products to follow in its footsteps with often outdated specs.
Thats why I love the N900, its a rare case of good (up to date) hardware matching a unique piece of open software. That does not happen very often, that's why I'd love to see MeeGo evolve and actually hit the market.
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Is that a N900 in your pants or are you just happy to see me?
Is that a N900 in your pants or are you just happy to see me?
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The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 looks more appealing to the Xoom to me.