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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (7)
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2010-04-12
, 14:47
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Banned |
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Joined on Feb 2010
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#102
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Originally Posted by stas123
It is not about law its about not allowing people to deliberatly gain the use of something they have stolen or knowingly give the use of something stolen, ok here is a scenario for you to think about...
Which laws govern whether or not it is legal or not to post something online? I say that the laws of the jurisdiction where the information is hosted (e.g. Finland) should apply.
Of course if local law forbids you to share information, it is your responsibility to comply.
I'm not an expert in law, and Finnish law especially, but I think it should be illegal to do criminal acts, but it shouldn't be illegal to write and discuss about them.
Murder, arson, theft are illegal, but you can't arres t me for talking about how they are committed.
you just had your N900 stolen... i have got it ... i ask on some forum how to change the identity of your mobile and i get the answer, how are you going to feel about the fact someone has told me exactly how to use your mobile and you can do absolutely nothing about it ?
The moral of this is not just about law its about trying to stop people doing something immoral.
By giving out such information on the internet about how to change imei is going to progress crime not stop it.
So best way to stop progress of crime is not to talk about how easy it is to commit it !.
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2010-04-12
, 14:53
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
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Joined on Feb 2010
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#103
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You sir, are terribly wrong =) Personal ideas are personal, and most of people (including me) do not care.
Enough said !
Enough said !
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2010-04-12
, 15:00
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Posts: 992 |
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Joined on Dec 2009
@ California
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#104
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Originally Posted by Matan
Do you know the way to read IMEI by non-root application in N900?
It is illegal in some places and legal in others. Please don't try to force your laws or your morals on the rest of the internet.
IMEI changing has a very legitimate reason - some programs lock themselves to IMEI. If your device is broken and replaced as part of warranty service, or is lost and you decide to get a new one, you suddenly can't use the programs you bought. You find yourself at the mercy of companies which might accept this change and might not. Changing the IMEI to the original one is much easier.
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2010-04-12
, 15:28
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Posts: 4,274 |
Thanked: 5,358 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ Looking at y'all and sighing
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#105
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Originally Posted by egoshin
sysinfo-tool -g /certs/npc/esn/gsm
Do you know the way to read IMEI by non-root application in N900?
And the DBus equiv.: run-standalone.sh dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --system --dest=com.nokia.SystemInfo /com/nokia/SystemInfo com.nokia.SystemInfo.GetConfigValue string:"/certs/npc/esn/gsm" (returned as an array of bytes)
sysinfo also has a library (libsysinfo0) with no publicly released headers that Nokia apps can use to access sysinfo directly. With all that said, however, I dunno if the phone daemons use sysinfod
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34058 also discusses getting it from the GSM daemon itself.
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2010-04-12
, 15:41
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Posts: 992 |
Thanked: 995 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ California
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#106
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Originally Posted by Aranel
You think you can detach moral and technical issues?
@abill_uk
You sir, are terribly wrong =) Personal ideas are personal, and most of people (including me) do not care. Since this thread is named "Is changing IMEI possible?" it's a simple yes/no question with a hidden question "If It's possible, how to do it?" So its not a discussion of WHY, it is a discussion of HOW. It's a technical discussion, not a moral one.
OK, what would you feel if some people discuss technical ways to genocide people? Or... whatever, it is just example what there are issues the moral ground of it's should be taken into account first.
As for now I see only two arguments in favor of IMEI change possibility - anonymity and access to software after changing equipment.
Anonymity has a very little with IMEI change and anybody who speaks about it doesn't answer the simple question - "will you change SIM card frequently with IMEI change?". They understand that IT is an issue but not IMEI because it is pretty easy to change phone in the name of anonymity but anonymous SIM card is difficult to obtain in many countries.
As for access to software change - that is an issue, at least in some countries law doesn't enforce the rights of owners or contractors. In US you can ask the game/software provider about allowing you to change equipment for locked software, BTW.
But in any case, the IMEI read is difficult for application software and actually, I think Nokia would inforce DRM via attaching DRM software to chip which would have it's own serial number. The reason is simple - between application and RF chip which hosts IMEI there is an open source and easy hackable software (and you, Matan, do it each day
and replace IMEI in it is pretty easy.So, N900 IMEI can't be used for enforcing DRM in N900 and that is also not a case.
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2010-04-12
, 15:43
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Posts: 992 |
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Joined on Dec 2009
@ California
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#107
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Originally Posted by qwerty12
It is not from RF chip and can be easily faked, so - it can't be used by DRM.
sysinfo-tool -g /certs/npc/esn/gsm
And the DBus equiv.: run-standalone.sh dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --system --dest=com.nokia.SystemInfo /com/nokia/SystemInfo com.nokia.SystemInfo.GetConfigValue string:"/certs/npc/esn/gsm" (returned as an array of bytes)
sysinfo also has a library (libsysinfo0) with no publicly released headers that Nokia apps can use to access sysinfo directly. With all that said, however, I dunno if the phone daemons use sysinfod
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34058 also discusses getting it from the GSM daemon itself.
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2010-04-12
, 16:00
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
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Joined on Feb 2010
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#108
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Originally Posted by Aranel
OK am going to put you right on the spot now... here is YOUR chance to steal the limelight (cos no way i want it !!! )
To all ppl with "simple solutions":
Thanks for your opinions. Since they are not reasonable, I don't have to discuss anything about this
@abill_uk
You sir, are terribly wrong =) Personal ideas are personal, and most of people (including me) do not care. Since this thread is named "Is changing IMEI possible?" it's a simple yes/no question with a hidden question "If It's possible, how to do it?" So its not a discussion of WHY, it is a discussion of HOW. It's a technical discussion, not a moral one.
You think It's not good to change it, or you dont want to change it? It is ok. Do not use this thread. Hey, I have seen another thread with some guy asking about pr0n on N900. It's funny!! But please, do not force your opinions or viewpoints on other people.
Sharing information and applying that information are not the same. Even if some people stole devices and change IMEI because of it, there's other users just want to change it because of anonymity, or just for fun, etc. Computers are more open than gaming consoles, and you see, lots of ppl pirating software. So what? We should make them more closed? So they can't pirate software, or if we close all torrent trackers, It'll affect pirates?
It is just.. weird to see that kind of solutions on a GNU/Linux distro's forum.
BTW, most of you guys already know that, but: If you steal a device, you can sell it, or find someone with enough knowledge and hardware to change it's IMEI number for you. They are already doing that for years, so It's possible for some ppl, but I don't know if it's possible on N900, how they do it and if it's possible with on-the-fly patching software, instead of some hardware and tools. (which WAS the main topic of this thread, long time ago)
WHY and for what reason would you want to change imei on your N900 ?
After saying to me ... @abill_uk
You sir, are terribly wrong =) Personal ideas are personal, and most of people (including me) do not care.
Then i will rest my case because no matter what reason ANYONE gives for wanting to change imei they must have a valid reason to do so.
My personal idea as you put it is simple... dont condone crime by telling everyone just how to change imei.
That is LOGIC not personal ok.
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2010-04-12
, 16:04
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Posts: 362 |
Thanked: 113 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#109
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LOL at Abill_uk... who is talking about stealing your/anyone's phone??
The thread is about imei changing.. Which, in the uk at least, is Illegal to DO, but I guess its not illegal to talk about the subject..
If your phone was stolen/lost, do you think those who stole it are genius people who know how to change imei??? they probably dont even know what imei is.... If I want to sell a stolen phone, I'll sell it to another country, thats simpler than changing imei or whatsoever... CHILL DUDE!!
If you are really so much concerned about you phone being stolen/lost, there are insurance as cheap as £4.99 a month.... I have it, and tbh, I dont give a damn if its bricked, lost, stolen, broken..
The thread is about imei changing.. Which, in the uk at least, is Illegal to DO, but I guess its not illegal to talk about the subject..
If your phone was stolen/lost, do you think those who stole it are genius people who know how to change imei??? they probably dont even know what imei is.... If I want to sell a stolen phone, I'll sell it to another country, thats simpler than changing imei or whatsoever... CHILL DUDE!!
If you are really so much concerned about you phone being stolen/lost, there are insurance as cheap as £4.99 a month.... I have it, and tbh, I dont give a damn if its bricked, lost, stolen, broken..
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2010-04-12
, 16:08
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#110
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Hasn't this discussion pretty much played out?
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Thanks for your opinions. Since they are not reasonable, I don't have to discuss anything about this
@abill_uk
You sir, are terribly wrong =) Personal ideas are personal, and most of people (including me) do not care. Since this thread is named "Is changing IMEI possible?" it's a simple yes/no question with a hidden question "If It's possible, how to do it?" So its not a discussion of WHY, it is a discussion of HOW. It's a technical discussion, not a moral one.
You think It's not good to change it, or you dont want to change it? It is ok. Do not use this thread. Hey, I have seen another thread with some guy asking about pr0n on N900. It's funny!! But please, do not force your opinions or viewpoints on other people.
Sharing information and applying that information are not the same. Even if some people stole devices and change IMEI because of it, there's other users just want to change it because of anonymity, or just for fun, etc. Computers are more open than gaming consoles, and you see, lots of ppl pirating software. So what? We should make them more closed? So they can't pirate software, or if we close all torrent trackers, It'll affect pirates?
It is just.. weird to see that kind of solutions on a GNU/Linux distro's forum.
BTW, most of you guys already know that, but: If you steal a device, you can sell it, or find someone with enough knowledge and hardware to change it's IMEI number for you. They are already doing that for years, so It's possible for some ppl, but I don't know if it's possible on N900, how they do it and if it's possible with on-the-fly patching software, instead of some hardware and tools. (which WAS the main topic of this thread, long time ago)