Elops oh s**t moment for Meego - Page 18 - maemo.org

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geohsia	2011-06-07 , 05:10
Posts: 515 \| Thanked: 259 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#171

Originally Posted by jo21

problem with strategy they killed symbian and they didnt test the water.

Thus bringing us full-circle to the original post which is the "oh s**t moment". Again, I'm no QT expert so someone will correct me but according to Wikipedia QT 4.1 was released in 2005. 6 years ago. If after 6 years they are still "testing" the water, they need to see that the other ships have set sailed and they are still waiting to get out of the harbor.

We're talking pure execution not potential.

regarless windows is a BAD OS, it have huge userbase that couldn't be ignore.

I use Windows 7 and frankly it works pretty good. Don't know WP7 though. Right or wrong at least they're doing something.

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cBeam	2011-06-07 , 05:28
Posts: 139 \| Thanked: 224 times \| Joined on Nov 2007 @ San Francisco, CA	#172

Originally Posted by geohsia

We're talking pure execution not potential.

There is no contest that Nokia's execution was piss-poor, at least since 2007.

That was the reason why they brought on a new CEO.

The new CEO managed to destroy an additional 40% of Nokia's market cap within the last 5 months.

He killed Symbian - a platform that increased sales quarter over quarter until the new CEO announced his new strategy, relegated Meego to hobby status, and undermined Qt because Qt is not allowed for Windows Phones.

We will never know if the Qt/Meego/Symbian strategy would have worked. We do see now that the transition from Symbian to WP does not work. We will see if the WP strategy will work.

If the WP strategy does not work, there very well might not be a Nokia as a relevant and independent concern anymore.

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	cjp	2011-06-07 , 05:35
	Posts: 762 \| Thanked: 395 times \| Joined on Jan 2010 @ Helsinki	#173

Originally Posted by geohsia

The US provides no leadership in smartphones? So who is, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea?

He talks about Japan leading the US, yet in Japan Google / iOS dominate 95% of the smartphone marketshare (57% and 38% respectively). I like that he conveniently throws mixes smartphone and cellphone data using which ever is most convenient to him and ignores facts inconvenient to his argument.

He makes that statement in connection to describimg how Elop is in his view obsessed about Apple controlling the US. Where as the reality is that Asian manufacturers are currently selling most phone in the US.

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	benny1967	2011-06-07 , 06:12
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#174

Originally Posted by geohsia

I'm not expert on QT...

quod erat demonstrandum.

the simple fact you ignore is that although qt had been around for long, nokia only bought the technology in 2008. that's when they started exploring it for their cross-platform-stategy.

In reality, the strategy really started to become successful in 2010. The "app store" you ask for (and that shouldn't be there... app stores are evil) offers qt-applications for both symbian and maemo at the moment. Nokia even evaluates possibilities to bring qt to S40 devices. (I wouldn't see much benefit there, though: Why a cross platform tool when there's only one target platform left?)

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lohner	2011-06-07 , 07:12
Posts: 49 \| Thanked: 39 times \| Joined on May 2011	#175

Qt would also make sense if you have only one platform. It is so easy to get results fast, that even I with no programming experience can write something in a few hours that really looks good and runs fast.
And Qt was used in quite a lot of projects before Nokia (e.g. Opera).

I would even have considered getting a WP7 device from Nokia, if it had had Qt...

Last edited by lohner; 2011-06-07 at 07:14. Reason: typos

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Rugoz	2011-06-07 , 09:44
Posts: 457 \| Thanked: 600 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#176

the simple fact you ignore is that although qt had been around for long, nokia only bought the technology in 2008. that's when they started exploring it for their cross-platform-stategy.

Exactly, 3 years is not a lot of time.

(I wouldn't see much benefit there, though: Why a cross platform tool when there's only one target platform left?)

Why not? If its better than the current java tools...

Qt would also make sense if you have only one platform.

Of course, nokia just wanted its own dev tools for its platform(s), c#/silverlight can also be used on all MS OSes.

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	benny1967	2011-06-07 , 10:04
	Posts: 3,790 \| Thanked: 5,718 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria	#177

Originally Posted by lohner

Qt would also make sense if you have only one platform. It is so easy to get results fast, that even I with no programming experience can write something in a few hours that really looks good and runs fast.

Yep, have to agree on the advantages of Qt from a devs PoV. I was surprised at how fast and easy it is even without experience.

I'm in no way against having Qt on S40, don't get me wrong here. It's only that from the little information I read about the topic here and there, I was under the impression that Qt was too heavy for S40 and wouldn't perform well on those low end devices. Don't know, though, so no need to speculate.

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Rugoz	2011-06-07 , 10:31
Posts: 457 \| Thanked: 600 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#178

I was under the impression that Qt was too heavy for S40 and wouldn't perform well on those low end devices. Don't know, though, so no need to speculate.

I think they will wait until Qt 5, which will bring more performance (qml scene graph, up to 2.5x faster) and modularization (QtGUI module will be much smaller, without the old QWidget stuff), before using it on s40 (if ever).

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geohsia	2011-06-07 , 11:48
Posts: 515 \| Thanked: 259 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#179

Originally Posted by benny1967

quod erat demonstrandum.

Haha. Just being honest.

the simple fact you ignore is that although qt had been around for long, nokia only bought the technology in 2008. that's when they started exploring it for their cross-platform-strategy.

Fine. After 3 years I think the determination was that they were still too far away from where they needed to be to be competitive.

In reality, the strategy really started to become successful in 2010. The "app store" you ask for (and that shouldn't be there... app stores are evil) offers qt-applications for both symbian and maemo at the moment.

App stores are evil? Look not everyone follows TMO. We're talking about success in the market not a developer's toy.

Please direct me to this mature since 2010 marketplace, overflowing with apps for all manners of devices. With all due respect to all QT developers out there, most of the stuff I've seen while functional lack the fit an finish of apps you see in the App Store or the Android Market.

If QT has been successful since 2010, there must be millions of these QT apps being downloaded monthly if not weekly or maybe even daily. I'm sorry but I must have missed it. Would love to see it.

Nokia even evaluates possibilities to bring qt to S40 devices. (I wouldn't see much benefit there, though: Why a cross platform tool when there's only one target platform left?)

Yes, "one framework to rule them all." All who gaze upon it will fall to their keyboards and countless applications will flow forth from their fingertips, quickly covering the world and rendering all other app frameworks impotent and useless.

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olighak	2011-06-07 , 11:51
Posts: 519 \| Thanked: 366 times \| Joined on Sep 2009 @ North Carolina (Formerly Denmark and Iceland)	#180

Originally Posted by geohsia

Haha. Just being honest.

If QT has been successful since 2010, there must be millions of these QT apps being downloaded monthly if not weekly or maybe even daily. I'm sorry but I must have missed it. Would love to see it.

But there are. There´s plenty of them at store.ovi.com, however they´re not labeled as "QT apps" because that´s just the programming behind the application

Just because you don´t see it on a daily basis doesn´t mean it isn´t there. Can you see all the plumbing in your house? Do you check every morning, by opening the hood, whether the motor is still in your car? Or do you just start the car and start driving?

Last edited by olighak; 2011-06-07 at 11:59.