Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments) - Page 208 - maemo.org

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	pichlo	2015-11-23 , 12:25
	Posts: 6,445 \| Thanked: 20,981 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#2071

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic

Is that confirmed?

You omitted the "if" part.

Surely Jolla simply didn't just take the money that was set aside for the hardware and just use it to cover day to day operations?

It is called robbing Peter to pay Paul. I am not advocating it but sometimes it is inevitable when you find yourself in a really dip sheet. Jolla apparently believed that paying Paul was more urgent and that they would get some funds in time to pay Peter but they did not. I do not blame them for shuffling the money, but I do for the dishonesty. They've been pulling wool over our eyes for months.

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tommo	2015-11-23 , 12:36
Posts: 435 \| Thanked: 1,599 times \| Joined on Dec 2010	#2072

Originally Posted by pichlo

I do not blame them for shuffling the money, but I do for the dishonesty. They've been pulling wool over our eyes for months.

This is it in a nutshell. Money comes and goes, but when the lies come out, its game over.

	Copernicus	2015-11-23 , 12:41
	Posts: 1,986 \| Thanked: 7,698 times \| Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio	#2073

Originally Posted by pichlo

It is called robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The problem is, in this case, I'm pretty sure Peter never had enough money in the first place; they'd still have had to go back to Patrick (i.e., their financier) to pay off both Peter's and Paul's debts.

tommo	2015-11-23 , 13:17
Posts: 435 \| Thanked: 1,599 times \| Joined on Dec 2010	#2074

Paul stole Peters Lastu case too

billranton	2015-11-23 , 13:43
Posts: 307 \| Thanked: 1,460 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Switzerland	#2075

Established companies have to balance their product prices to their cost of productions and other outgoings, but that's not how startups work. New companies lose money, because establishing revenue streams takes time. Startups require regular injections of capital to keep going during this time, until they eventually turn a profit. They depend and rely on these injections, and it's almost impossible for a startup to succeed without them.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/alphabet_rounds.asp

It's completely correct for Jolla to plan their operations around this money coming in. A startup would never be expected to keep indigogo money in a piggie bank separate from everything else. If the backers lose interest, no more can be found and the investment stops coming in, then the business is over. The tablet pledge money is a drop in the ocean.

Also I think legally the tablet pledge money was a donation, for which you may receive a 'perk' which is not guaranteed. I think the only people with legal rights to a refund are the people who pre-ordered this summer.

tortoisedoc	2015-11-23 , 13:45
Posts: 592 \| Thanked: 1,167 times \| Joined on Jul 2012	#2076

Originally Posted by tommo

Paul stole Peters Lastu case too

No need for a lastu case anymore

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NokiaFanatic	2015-11-23 , 13:59
Posts: 337 \| Thanked: 891 times \| Joined on Jul 2012 @ Royaume Uni.	#2077

I was about to go off on a rant and say that couldn't possibly be right. But it turns out you are correct. There is no entitlement to any refunds on IndieGoGo.

http://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms

All Contributions are non-refundable by Indiegogo and are made in your sole discretion and at your sole risk based on your sole determination and evaluation of the Campaign. You are solely responsible for determining the tax deductibility of any Contribution.

[…]

Indiegogo does not represent, warrant or guarantee:

Perks will be delivered;
Perks will be satisfactory to you; or
The use of any Contributions or the outcome of any Campaign. It is up to you, as the Contributor, to ask such questions and undertake such due diligence as you deem necessary before you make a Contribution. Indiegogo may, in its sole discretion and judgment but is under no obligation to, seek the refund of Contributions.

So basically, if you ask for your money back, you'll get an IndieNoNo.

itdoesntmatt	2015-11-23 , 14:07
Posts: 529 \| Thanked: 988 times \| Joined on Mar 2015	#2078

but why preorder backers could have money back ? because is not a crowd founding but really a preorder?

billranton	2015-11-23 , 14:10
Posts: 307 \| Thanked: 1,460 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Switzerland	#2079

Yes, they ordered something from a shop, and that's a contract to deliver or refund. Funding a kickstarter is a donation. Not that it matters anyway, because Jolla will get their next round of funding and everyone will get their tablets. If they don't, no-one will get any refunds because they will be bankrupt.

Don't give up people! We're meant to be doing it together!!