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2015-11-26
, 13:03
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Posts: 592 |
Thanked: 1,167 times |
Joined on Jul 2012
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#2222
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Originally Posted by zenecho
That's due to the fact they are out of money, which is due to the fact the main investor pulled out.
yes, have you read any of this thread?
Jolla has effectively been paid for 12000 tablets. they have shipped 250-300. They are currently unable to ship the rest. They cant sell new tablets, if they cant even meet their previous paid for orders.
How does that imply a product which has sold x cannot sell for another x ammount?
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic
Firstly, no one will buy anymore tablets until the existing backlog is cleared. Money will be required for that.
Secondly, if Jolla wanted to make another tablet, they would have to update the design/specs, add new OS features, order the physical hardware, research, test, etc. All this would require further money. Given that Jolla lost money on the Tablet 1 on sales of 20k tablets. To try and not lose money on this venture, they'd probably need to be selling more than 100k at least to get the benefit of economies of scale.
It's clear from the announcement a few months back that HW development is crippling Jolla. That is why they put a spike through it when they killed it (they said they were spinning it off, but in reality it's a total nonstarter).
Why another tablet? What's the point? Assuming they would get another investor and get there, they would probably ship the remaning tablets and try to sell more (as they did with the phone).
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BWizz - best N9 bookmark editing tool! Check it out ->BWizz for Harmattan
LINKer - transform your N9's home view in a Desktop, give it the freedom it deserves! -> LINKer for Harmattan
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2015-11-26
, 13:07
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Posts: 170 |
Thanked: 386 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#2223
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My experience with start ups is losing founders isn't all bad. Sometimes you're losing "cowboys" who thrive in the shoot-from-the-hip early stages of a small company but can't/won't adapt sustainable business processes as the business grows.
The innovative things they established can be taken and used to grow by people who are more experienced in traditional biz process, while they can blaze off into the sunset to their next pioneering adventure.
That said, my experience also doesn't include losing all your funding, so there's that.
The innovative things they established can be taken and used to grow by people who are more experienced in traditional biz process, while they can blaze off into the sunset to their next pioneering adventure.
That said, my experience also doesn't include losing all your funding, so there's that.
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2015-11-26
, 13:44
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Posts: 307 |
Thanked: 1,460 times |
Joined on May 2011
@ Switzerland
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#2224
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Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic
It's been caused by the investor, yes, and as I said I don't think any startup can reasonably anticipate that so I would blame the investor more than Jolla. Sailfish and Jolla are about two years in. $50m isn't a lot in this game. Every current mobile OS took way more than that, and Sailfish is very mature for its age. As others have said, there are products and partners in the pipeline.
So you're saying this situation is all the fault of the investor? Would you not consider the investor's perspective in all this? i.e. the guts of $50M has went into Jolla since 2012 - going into 2016 the Sailfish user base is still tiny, there are no products in the pipeline, there is no plan as to how Sailfish can be commercially viable.
Clearly Jolla have worked hard, but Jolla as a commercial business entity has failed and failed pretty badly.
The sales of the first phone were a failure, yes. But if you give up after your first failure then you don't deserve to succeed.
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic
Yes, and if they can keep the Intex deal in place then there's potential for growth afterwards.
The question we ask from here is can Sailfish be kept going in a smaller, tighter ship? Personally, I think so.
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2015-11-26
, 13:57
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Posts: 337 |
Thanked: 891 times |
Joined on Jul 2012
@ Royaume Uni.
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#2225
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Originally Posted by tortoisedoc
Because they simply can't just start selling last years technology again and expect too much serious interest.
Why another tablet? What's the point?
Originally Posted by tortoisedoc
No investor is going to step in to ship tablets that money has been received and spent for already.
Assuming they would get another investor and get there, they would probably ship the remaning tablets and try to sell more (as they did with the phone).
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2015-11-26
, 14:14
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Posts: 337 |
Thanked: 891 times |
Joined on Jul 2012
@ Royaume Uni.
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#2226
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Originally Posted by billranton
Any investor needs to see something to reassure them to continue investing. Does a company have to make money straight away? Clearly not, Cyanogen are not making money yet they are a darling investment to the big shots. Despite a lot of technical problems, they are clearly onto something (50M users and growing). Like with Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. the investment model is to build it, develop a strong user base, then at that stage - monetize the asset. Jolla have built it, but the user base just is not there (if anything it's probably shrinking as people get fed up of their ageing Jolla phones), and since there is no revenue - the underlying SailfishOS asset has very little value.
It's been caused by the investor, yes, and as I said I don't think any startup can reasonably anticipate that so I would blame the investor more than Jolla. Sailfish and Jolla are about two years in. $50m isn't a lot in this game. Every current mobile OS took way more than that, and Sailfish is very mature for its age. As others have said, there are products and partners in the pipeline.
The sales of the first phone were a failure, yes. But if you give up after your first failure then you don't deserve to succeed.
Question for you all - would you spend $10M a year for an OS with a user base of 20,000-30,000 users?
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2015-11-26
, 14:17
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Posts: 285 |
Thanked: 1,900 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#2227
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Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic
I guess it's not about finding the faulty party here, but rather seeing reason behind current problems.
So you're saying this situation is all the fault of the investor? Would you not consider the investor's perspective in all this?
i.e. the guts of $50M has went into Jolla since 2012 - going into 2016 the Sailfish user base is still tiny, there are no products in the pipeline, there is no plan as to how Sailfish can be commercially viable.
The whole point of this thread was tl talk about the possibilities of keeping Sailfish going.
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2015-11-26
, 14:38
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Posts: 337 |
Thanked: 891 times |
Joined on Jul 2012
@ Royaume Uni.
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#2228
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Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
Still waiting for a prototype even, we were supposed to see it released by now.
Wrong, there is the Intex-deal and their first Sailfish-phone is in the pipleline.
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
Maemo?
Without some company/corporation actively developing it there is no way it can live in the long run. At least in a sense that it could become relevant player.
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2015-11-26
, 14:45
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Posts: 1,986 |
Thanked: 7,698 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
@ Dayton, Ohio
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#2229
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Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic
Were we? I keep seeing people saying this, yet the only official statement I've ever seen (the Intex press release) only states the last quarter of 2015 as a target date, which of course we're only halfway through at this point...
Still waiting for a prototype even, we were supposed to see it released by now.
But yeah, given the current situation, I'm sure the Intex phone is on hold (at least) now.
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2015-11-26
, 14:51
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#2230
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
IAs soon as your own company would profit and get more orders/work/whatever you expecting — you would have less to none time for Sailfish. Or am I wrong?
[LIST][*]I'm not 'gone' any further than still pushing SailfishOS through contracting, which I also did for first many years of Jolla (and my last role was CTO, R&D fwiw.); where I switched to be a company for personal direction reasons, not because of the company.
Originally Posted by Stskeeps
I would really disagree on that. It sounds more as quit while on Top.
It's more interesting to look at who's left in a tough financial situation to keep the boat afloat; and who didn't get laid off.
It's an insult to all us engineers (and some support functions), dare I say pioneering type of people who aren't laid off, who's been pushing hours, effort, sweat and a lot of tears since the start that we can't continue Jolla/SailfishOS when Jolla/SailfishOS is as much our effort and child as it is that of the founders. Sometimes the best thing founders can do is step aside and let people do what they're good at. In fact, for a very long while, we didn't even have internal marketing, all subcontracted. The power is in the networks around us.
And a pretty good example is CEO cutting his salary to 50% to keep afloat (Satoru Iwata)
And try to understand me, I'm not anti or negative here. It's just a reality. Any person that does things half way and quit can tell it's for good of the product or general aim.
Same as in open letter from Jolla it says that they found out about finance problems next day after Slush. Though people left the boat before. The question is if the date of "finance problems realization" is a lie and was not passed to community (as with most problems) and after turned around as a hero story or are there other reasons people are leaving and there is something that got rotten from inside for a while already.
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Secondly, if Jolla wanted to make another tablet, they would have to update the design/specs, add new OS features, order the physical hardware, research, test, etc. All this would require further money. Given that Jolla lost money on the Tablet 1 on sales of 20k tablets. To try and not lose money on this venture, they'd probably need to be selling more than 100k at least to get the benefit of economies of scale.
It's clear from the announcement a few months back that HW development is crippling Jolla. That is why they put a spike through it when they killed it (they said they were spinning it off, but in reality it's a total nonstarter).