twigleaf1976 I agree with you on the name of this community because if it is the case Maemo is ceased then people will just move on to a Meego forum and forget this place ever exsisted WOW what a thought !!!.

Some people on here dont even know how let alone where the drivers come from for the N900 ! let alone encrypted bineries used by Nokia for that specific purpose making sure closed drivers stay closed !.

They are _NOT_ encrypted. Why can't you just listen to what people tell you that _DO_ understand the platform. Because you're obviously completely oblivious yourself.

I'm sure you'll see this post as an attack, that's because you're obviously a complete *****.

I've asked you a question 5 times, no answer.
I've told you that the closed components aren't encrypted about 3 times, (probably 4 now).

I don't mind saying this, but it's quite clear that I know more about this than you. So listen and pay attention.

You started this thread because you wanted to ask something of the community. You wanted to know what "we" were willing to do to keep the N900 alive for the foreseeable future. You've not once attempted to clarify what you think that actually entails.

You want to see the entire platform open? Do you think that will make us continue to maintain the N900 with Maemo?

No, because we're all moving to MeeGo when it becomes stable.

I've tried to be civil, I've tried to help you in this request. You've just been intentionally argumentative and extremely dense.

Those were personal attacks and if I get banned from t.m.o so be it. I'm sick of your stupidity and I will probably get on fine conversing in IRC anyway.

You do NOT ask for everyone on this community. I don't think you are a spokesman for the community. You certainly aren't a spokesman for me. You are the most divisive "rah rah" community poster I have ever seen. The most offensive posts in this thread are from you, such as the "little boy" reference to a fellow member of the community.

And by the way, do some reading on the distinction between "effect" and "affect".

So, I think it's about time for me to really weigh in why it is I'm pushing MeeGo on N900 and why this is the right direction. This is probably going to be a bit long.

This is also probably my last long post on the matter as I'm now fully in a MeeGo role, no longer maemo.org distmaster.

The fact is that the model of 770 -> N800 -> N810 -> N900 has been that of one device per OS version. There hasn't been resources for keeping a full product team for multiple devices at a time.

This has caused what some describe as Rapid Obsolescence Syndrome, where the device OS rapidly goes into maintenance mode after device release while mostly everyone involved moves on to the next product/device. This obviously leaves users unhappy.

Now, there are multiple suggestions around here:

* Fremantle community SSU
* Petition for open sourcing most of Fremantle to keep it maintained
* Harmattan HE for N900
(etc)

And my main point in the following is that those directions will be like pissing your pants to keep yourself warm. Quick review:

Community SSU can work on the open source parts (it has happened on N8x0 just fine). Maybe you can find some ability together with Fremantle aficionados inside Nokia who could be interested in contributing with upgrades of some binary packages -
I doubt there's any problem if those exist to slip some packages out.

But the main point is: no upstream work will really happen. I highly doubt you can find enough people that are still around to keep things working. Even with documentation, the code can be quite hairy to add new features to. So that bends down to a resourcing problem.

Open sourcing most of Fremantle - I simply don't think it's going to happen. Too much work for too little benefit. And the same problems as with normal SSU when the code does arrive.

Harmattan HE. This would already be obsolete by the time we were done as a more modern platform would be available in MeeGo. As well as at some point, no more upstream development.

The main point - you'll piss your pants with these projects to keep yourself warm for a while, but you'll just keep on feeding the Rapid Obsolescence Syndrome to some extent - that you'll never be able to play catch-up to new technologies and satisfy the requirements of your users. It is a physical impossibility as there's many more man-hours poured into MeeGo than you can provide here.

MeeGo and Qt has changed the status quo that existed that:
* Any Linux-based OS platform from Nokia is tied to a certain device
* Any applications from Nokia is tied to a certain device by fact that they were released for a certain OS platform.

It's a game-changer because now, for any given 'Nokia' OS for these devices, this will after Harmattan be based off MeeGo (platform from MeeGo.com).

Now, what are we actually doing in MeeGo for N900?

First off - we're making the hardware adaptation for N900 maintainable.

This means that we are actively upstreaming N900 drivers to the mainline Linux kernel as well as getting those few blobs we have into the MeeGo non-oss repositories with redistributable license. This is actively happening.

Second, we're running QA daily to make sure that N900 still works with the current MeeGo platform state. This means we're always at the front of the platform development. MeeGo platform doesn't move forward if a change breaks N900 - it is a reference device.

That's not pissing your pants to keep warm. That's making a bonfire and collecting wood to make us sustainably warm. And that's one of the reasons why I hope for more people to contribute to the MeeGo effort.

Now for the users. Look forward a bit - Nokia's obviously going to make a OS release based on 'real' MeeGo.com. The same code that'll power future handsets will be based on the same code that N900 already now supports. It's the same infrastructure that builds images and software that MeeGo for N900 is made using, as any given future Nokia OS. Instead of Nokia having applications tied to Fremantle or to Diablo or whatever, they now tie to MeeGo - the same platform you have on your N900.

If you want to make a real bonfire and eat your cake too, you will want to do the following:

* Contribute to MeeGo and MeeGo on N900 in the short term - this will improve matters for Nokia N900 obviously.
* Petition for Nokia early on, to consider providing the following things:
** Executive summary: access to the binaries making up the Nokia differentiation
** Weekly (or other interval) repository releases (binaries) available to Nokia N900 users of their future MeeGo.com-based OS under the usual 'this is not for end-users, bla bla'. Kinda like the old 'Sardine'
** Kickstart files for these weekly releases so you can edit them into your own images for the N900 using the Nokia bits.
** Community can be possibly be more involved in the QA process this way and contribute in general.
** If branding is a problem, have community themes and icons.
** Suggest new ways to have both a 'closed' vendor OS with all the goodies based on MeeGo.com while at same time having your power user community close to you.

Now, this is a way that can keep you ahead of the curve regarding your device. The N900 hardware isn't going obsolete for many years and is still very capable.

I think this might be possible to pull off, but it requires people to start gaining skills within MeeGo - and help contribute to MeeGo on N900. It's a similar approach to Harmattan HE, but more involved and more future proof. So I wouldn't say it's impossible.

So - it's your choice: Live in the future instead of the past.

I'll be working to make the future happen - see you on http://www.meego.com (and http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 )

It took ages compared to what? 1.3 due? No-one knows, or actually only Nokia internals know what is schedule for that.

Please Watson tell us more about this! (krhm. we have had these conversation about n+1 times here and probably everyone agrees)

Find funny? If you look bugzilla you see that they are fixing still maemo stuff and if you look opensourced stuff you see that they are providing fixes there (how to compile some of that stuff to maemo is totally community depended). Trying to say that support means different things to different people. To some support might mean that Company x makes drivers fully open source and STOPS developing. Giving drivers away as open source could be seen as lifetime support to community. So again everything depends on point of view.

True. Then what?

Sucks big time. And your point is that because N900 doesn't support ovi fully it means that there is no anymore support?

As I said before to abill this community does what ever it does. Why should you me or him be so interested on about future of community? Life happens and then you die.

Why would anyone be interested about my, you or persons x intension around here? Why would someone here care that you are going to somewhere else?

There will be bugs to infinity. No-one has said anything about PR 1.4. Only thing what we have is meego N900 adaption which is worked by team that Nokia helps and for example nitdroid and who knows what else. Everything else is up to you.

Why so many posters here think that I, we, community whatever should care about their intentions? Why people are so passionate about what they are going to do that they have to yell it on streets? Come to Finland, Do that friday night in snack que and get beaten. Fo sake of it DO do not speak because no one really cares. Money talks and etc.

@slender, I think the problem is, before the mass attack of users/abill_uk, this community didn't have people talking about it in 3rd person, not really. We got on with the projects we were interested in, talked about technical issues we were having and shared our code.

With all these arrogant, demanding and ignorant people pretending to be knowledgeable and attempting to "fit-in" they're proving to be completely incompatible.

The community that Maemo.org represents has mainly and will for some time be lone developers working on hobby projects and sharing their work. I just wish all the "basic" users would just sit back and watch rather than try to get involved in things they don't understand

@Stskeeps,

Now that argumentation might actually make me change my mind about NOT switching to Meego. Thanks for that well written clarification!

This has nothing to do with the actual thread, but for the love of God. It's not "i" it's "I".

I (note the capital) would give your posts a much more in depth read if I could just get over the fact that grammar seems like a foreign concept to you.

AT LAST something to read that makes sense and with that stskeeps i will wait for Meego and then trouble you with the mods !.

Your a saint and a blessing to this community !.