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| The Following User Says Thank You to RevdKathy For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-11-02
, 08:28
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Posts: 3,159 |
Thanked: 2,023 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
@ Finland
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#22
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Originally Posted by jjx
i bet my friends would only be delighted if i'd do that
I'd quite like to record *all* phone calls automatically, and keep them in a similar way to voice messages in the conversation tracker.
I realise there are legal issues, but it would be a nice feature, for referring back to calls.
sometimes i have no clue what i promise when talking to the phone. best approach has been calling with my nokia 1100 and keeping e71 calendar ready. if i dont mark something down asap, i'll forget it.
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2009-11-02
, 09:30
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 359 times |
Joined on May 2007
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#23
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If I phone in to a call centre and get an automated message saying that "the call may be recorded", then I would take that as permission to record the call. Although I expect that the message is supposed to notify me that the other party intends to record it, it cuts both ways.
__________________
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
| The Following User Says Thank You to fnordianslip For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-11-02
, 10:03
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Posts: 203 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#24
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Originally Posted by fnordianslip
I really doubt it works that way. The law, at least in many U.S. states (as I posted above), requires you to notify the other party if you're recording the call. I doubt it really matters what the other party is doing. Each person who is recording must give notification that they're doing so.
If I phone in to a call centre and get an automated message saying that "the call may be recorded", then I would take that as permission to record the call. Although I expect that the message is supposed to notify me that the other party intends to record it, it cuts both ways.
You're logic is like saying, if I take my car to a mechanic and sign the estimate for repairs, which is also a waiver giving the mechanic permission to do the repairs, that therefore means that I also have the right to work on the mechanic's car.
Granting one party permission for a specific activity, doesn't just automatically grant all parties permission for a specific activity. I'd say, if you haven't made it explicit that you're recording the call, then you're breaking the law.
The point of the law, after all, is that people are supposed to know the call is being recorded by a specific party. The fact that I tell you that I'm recording a call, in no way gives me knowledge about whether or not you're recording the call.
Last edited by cb474; 2009-11-02 at 10:06.
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2009-11-02
, 10:06
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 359 times |
Joined on May 2007
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#25
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Originally Posted by cb474
No it isn't.
You're logic is like saying, if I take my car to a mechanic and sign the estimate for repairs, which is also a waiver giving the mechanic permission to do the repairs, that therefore means that I also have the right to work on the mechanic's car.
__________________
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
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2009-11-02
, 10:09
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Posts: 203 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#26
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Originally Posted by fnordianslip
Yeah, it really is. My example of the mechanic just makes it more obvious how you're idea seems like it makes sense, but it really doesn't. Just because I grant you permission to do something, doesn't mean you've automatically granted me permission to do the same thing.
No it isn't.
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2009-11-02
, 10:17
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 359 times |
Joined on May 2007
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#27
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Originally Posted by cb474
I beg to differ, precisely because of the language that they use in my example. Stating "this call may be recorded" can be construed to be both a statement of fact (i.e. that they might be recording the call, and have advised me of that fact) and equally viably, be considered to be granting permission to record the call.
Yeah, it really is. My example of the mechanic just makes it more obvious how you're idea seems like it makes sense, but it really doesn't. Just because I grant you permission to do something, doesn't mean you've automatically granted me permission to do the same thing.
In your car analogy, there should be no such ambiguity, so your analogy fails. The semantics are different.
__________________
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
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2009-11-02
, 10:17
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Posts: 1,217 |
Thanked: 446 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Bedfordshire, UK
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#28
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Originally Posted by fnordianslip
For the UK that is a correct interpretation of the law, though in other countries this is not the case.
If I phone in to a call centre and get an automated message saying that "the call may be recorded", then I would take that as permission to record the call. Although I expect that the message is supposed to notify me that the other party intends to record it, it cuts both ways.
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2009-11-02
, 10:21
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Posts: 1,217 |
Thanked: 446 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Bedfordshire, UK
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#29
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Originally Posted by cb474
The arguement falls down on the basis that it isn't the same activity. The work is to be carried out on a specific car. There is also specific legislation in different areas of contractual and communication law.
Yeah, it really is. My example of the mechanic just makes it more obvious how you're idea seems like it makes sense, but it really doesn't. Just because I grant you permission to do something, doesn't mean you've automatically granted me permission to do the same thing.
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2009-11-02
, 10:33
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Posts: 203 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#30
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Originally Posted by fnordianslip
Yeah, "this call may be recorded" could hypothetically mean two different things, but it can't mean both of them at the same time. Either the statement means, the company you've called is giving you permission to record the call. "You may record the call if you so please." Or the statement means, "It is possible that we may be recording the call." From the context it's clear that the statement is intended to mean the latter. You're playing a linguistic game to have it both ways. People don't grant permission through puns and double entendres.
I beg to differ, precisely because of the language that they use in my example. Stating "this call may be recorded" can be construed to be both a statement of fact (i.e. that they might be recording the call, and have advised me of that fact) and equally viably, be considered to be granting permission to record the call.
In your car analogy, there should be no such ambiguity, so your analogy fails. The semantics are different.
Also, those messages about calls being recording don't simply say "this call may be recorded." You've taken the statement out of context. They pretty much always say something to the effect of "this call may be recorded for quality assurance and training purposes." Do you think that the company you've called is granting you permission to record the call for your own quality assurance and training purposes? It's obvious that the statement is referring to the company's own call recording practices in their call center, not to giving you permission to do something.
What's more, what the law says is that the person recording the call must notify the other party that they are doing so. So even if the other party without prompting said that they were giving you permission to record the call if you wanted to, that still wouldn't be enough. It doesn't matter if they grant permission, before you say anything. What the law requires is that you explicitly notify the other party that you're recording the call.
Basically it just seems like you want an excuse not to have to tell the other party that you're recording the call.
Last edited by cb474; 2009-11-02 at 10:42.
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