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2007-01-12
, 19:05
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#22
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Originally Posted by Nickster
It's a crash, trust me. If this was a Microsoft thing, they'd probably call it the "user-independent shut-down feature", but in Linuxland, we call things by their ugly names.
I expect Opera to be as stable as Firefox.
Opera on the 770 disappears on me frequently - more than daily. Some people might not call that a crash, but I do.
"Thy program shalt not close down without thy express permission", is carved in aeon-old granite in mile-high letters in Bitstream Vera Sans.
The only way to keep Opera stable is to only have one window open at any one time.
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2007-01-12
, 19:10
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Posts: 152 |
Thanked: 6 times |
Joined on Dec 2006
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#23
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Originally Posted by Nickster
then disable your wifi and USB connection, and lock you screen. That should guarantee its stability.
The only way to keep Opera stable is to only have one window open at any one time.
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2007-01-12
, 19:14
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#24
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Originally Posted by aflegg
Ooohhh! I almost forgot about the link-amnesia! It's a real tick in the 'nads, that one, but I've gotten so used to it that I almost subconsciously switch to double-tap whenever Opera throws that fit on me.
Texrat: it's worrying when a person in your position isn't aware of the instability of one of the key applications.
See, for example: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=743 - or also the behaviour where Opera suddenly decides that following links is much too much like hard work, and gives up doing anything but highlighting the link when you tap on it.
Hopefully the newer version and more memory on the N800 will have resolved some of these issues, but everytime I use Opera in a rush, I'm always worried it'll crash or just stop working at the most inconvenient moment.
Hence NetSurf.
I really don't understand why people, who are supposedly in the know, keep heaping praise upon Opera in portable devices. Sure, it's a nice browser on the desktop, but it is a pile of shite on any handheld I've ever used it on (or rather: have been abused by it on).
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2007-01-12
, 19:47
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Posts: 550 |
Thanked: 110 times |
Joined on Aug 2006
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#25
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Karel, before you rip Opera a new one for its "aweful browser," can you name a single other company that has tried to consistently provide a mobile browsing experience with support for modern web standards across a huge range of devices? The only other browsers that are even in the same ballpark are Access Netfront and Minimo. Minimo has more or less been abandoned by Doug Turner at this point and Netfront comes in a rather distant third, given my experience with version 3.3
Opera isn't perfect, but the latest version on the N800 is a big improvement over that on the N770. I sincerely hope that Nokia continues development of the N770 and licenses the latest Opera for it as well. A lot of people bought 770's very recently and to have a company heavily advertise a product shortly before dropping meaningful support for it would be the highest form of disrespect for your customer's hard earned. I know that I tend to gravitate to and stick with companies that have good long term support records and avoid those that take the money and run. In the tech business, you certainly don't want to burn the power user base, either. Even though they are a small minority, they are a very vocal and influential one.
Opera isn't perfect, but the latest version on the N800 is a big improvement over that on the N770. I sincerely hope that Nokia continues development of the N770 and licenses the latest Opera for it as well. A lot of people bought 770's very recently and to have a company heavily advertise a product shortly before dropping meaningful support for it would be the highest form of disrespect for your customer's hard earned. I know that I tend to gravitate to and stick with companies that have good long term support records and avoid those that take the money and run. In the tech business, you certainly don't want to burn the power user base, either. Even though they are a small minority, they are a very vocal and influential one.
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2007-01-12
, 20:01
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Posts: 1,245 |
Thanked: 421 times |
Joined on Dec 2005
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#26
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So, um, back on the original topic (Ari's blog)...
Yeah, I think it's great that Ari is acknowledging the frustration of legacy 770 users. But I don't think that blog is as re-assuring (at least to me) as it should be.
"We will now investigate what it takes to run N800 software on 770 hardware." That statement is supposed to appease us, but it also, to me, implies that until we started complaining, Ari (and Nokia) had no intention whatsoever of providing OS 2007 (or a variant of it) for the 770. I guess there original plan was to just slip it right by us and hope we didn't stir up too much bad PR.
"Should we find it impossible to have N800 software even partially run on 770, you will see the details of our attempt." It sounds like they haven't even started this work, so even if it does work out, I wouldn't expect it to be coming any time soon.
Basically, I think this "re-assuring" blog has had the opposite effect on me. I still hold out hope, but it is greatly diminished by this blog.
Yeah, I think it's great that Ari is acknowledging the frustration of legacy 770 users. But I don't think that blog is as re-assuring (at least to me) as it should be.
"We will now investigate what it takes to run N800 software on 770 hardware." That statement is supposed to appease us, but it also, to me, implies that until we started complaining, Ari (and Nokia) had no intention whatsoever of providing OS 2007 (or a variant of it) for the 770. I guess there original plan was to just slip it right by us and hope we didn't stir up too much bad PR.
"Should we find it impossible to have N800 software even partially run on 770, you will see the details of our attempt." It sounds like they haven't even started this work, so even if it does work out, I wouldn't expect it to be coming any time soon.
Basically, I think this "re-assuring" blog has had the opposite effect on me. I still hold out hope, but it is greatly diminished by this blog.
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2007-01-12
, 20:07
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Posts: 190 |
Thanked: 21 times |
Joined on Sep 2006
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#27
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Your field of personal interests? The same goes for me, so far, not one of the web sites I really need has ever crashed Opera on the 770.
Second, as I said, I'm personally not experiencing that Opera flakiness. So the question becomes: why not?
But then, I barely ever visit sites outside the scope of my personal and professional interests, which are almost entirely scientific, non-profit, open-source or underground in one way or other, so that I almost never come across IE-centric sites containing orgies of animated GIFs and Flash menus, buggy stylesheets of several 100KB size, and piles of concurrently running Javascript usage tracking spyware.
Presumably, the overwehelming majority of popular entertainment web sites is built that way - and whenever I've stumbled into something like that, Opera was way less stable than on my usual tasks.
Sevo
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2007-01-12
, 20:15
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#28
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Originally Posted by gnuite
No offense meant, gnuite, but I think you're just approaching that blog update with a negative bias. I doubt any sort of subversion was intended toward the community-- I think they just honestly misgaged the response, and you're now seeing the realization of that based on critical feedback.
So, um, back on the original topic (Ari's blog)...
Yeah, I think it's great that Ari is acknowledging the frustration of legacy 770 users. But I don't think that blog is as re-assuring (at least to me) as it should be.
"We will now investigate what it takes to run N800 software on 770 hardware." That statement is supposed to appease us, but it also, to me, implies that until we started complaining, Ari (and Nokia) had no intention whatsoever of providing OS 2007 (or a variant of it) for the 770. I guess there original plan was to just slip it right by us and hope we didn't stir up too much bad PR.
"Should we find it impossible to have N800 software even partially run on 770, you will see the details of our attempt." It sounds like they haven't even started this work, so even if it does work out, I wouldn't expect it to be coming any time soon.
Basically, I think this "re-assuring" blog has had the opposite effect on me. I still hold out hope, but it is greatly diminished by this blog.
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2007-01-12
, 20:18
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Posts: 1,245 |
Thanked: 421 times |
Joined on Dec 2005
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#29
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Actually, this sounds like it could be a fun game: "Guess Texrat's Role". Now, according to the rules of this game, there are two ways to win:
My statements are being misconstrued.
For one, I haven't revealed (and can't) the nature of my involvement but it's a role I guarantee most people here won't accurately guess. The nature of my role has me focused on highly specific areas to the point that I can't spend much time on the things that are near and dear to the developers (but trust me, I wish I could!). So I'm out of the loop in some ways due to time constraints.
1. Accurately guess Texrat's role. He has posted a lot of clues so far. But, given that he likely won't admit it if someone actually guesses correctly, it will be difficult to verify a winner this way.
2. Force Texrat to reveal his role. This could be as easy as simply suggesting lowly, ridiculous, monkey-capable jobs, like (insert insulting job title here). This is almost the opposite of #1 - if you can suggest roles so far out that he feels compelled to dispel such rumors, then you win!
#2 might be a little demeaning, though, and I'm a little ashamed even to suggest it, so I think that winning by #1 (even if nobody other than Texrat will know it) earns more respect, and "winning" by #2 is just bad form.
My guess is that his role is involved (as a contractor) in some sort of sub-system (not whole-system) QA verification, be it hardware or software. It could be specifically focused on part of the new functionality, like the camera. Actually, this post provides explicit evidence that it is camera-related:
Originally Posted by Texrat
Of course, I could be way off.
I would like to hear from any N800 users who experience an image that will not flip after 90 degree rotation (toward the rear). Please start a new thread in Troubleshooting and/or PM me. Thanks.
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2007-01-12
, 20:23
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Posts: 1,245 |
Thanked: 421 times |
Joined on Dec 2005
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#30
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Originally Posted by Texrat
So you're saying that they had plans all along to release OS 2007 for the 770, but didn't want to tell us? Maybe they were waiting for everyone to assume that the 770 was going out of favor and thus buy an n800 before they started to calm the 770-loving masses... Yeah, I can see the financial motivations (and thus the corporate plausibility) of that approach. That still rubs me the wrong way.
No offense meant, gnuite, but I think you're just approaching that blog update with a negative bias. I doubt any sort of subversion was intended toward the community-- I think they just honestly misgaged the response, and you're now seeing the realization of that based on critical feedback.
1- Nokia 770 (or N800) is designed and marketed primarily as an Internet Tablet. This means Nokia should pay close attention to browsing experience and web site compatibility; something that is poorly implemented on 770.
2- With introduction of N800, it seems that Nokia down plays the importance of browser stability and site compatibility (e.g. Google Calendar...) on 770.
It's like selling a phone that doesn't work half the time due to software issues and then after introducing a new and improved phone excusing oneself of fixing the issues of the first one. If Nokia backports OS2007 base to 770, but Opera browser issues remain unsolved or half the frequently used websites stay inaccessible, then, the 770 Internet Tablet hasn't improved meaningfully.
Please remember, I'm talking about Internet usability on a so called Internet Tablet, not other features like Multimedia. So, I ask this : when Ari (with all his good intentions that I respect) states possibly there won't be an improved Opera browser for 770, why is it acceptable?
Please also note, big corporations mistreat their consumers, because we let them to do so and brush off the, bitter, feeling by saying they all do that. I strongly disagree with rude or angry protests, but, if a user community demand getting a service worthy of the money that they pay, then, they will get it.