I'll go for that. Reading things before you comment on them always seemed to make sense to me, anyway.

I don't. Enlighten me.

Oh wait, let's see: A flood of invective intermixed with some profoundly sill thoughts and a smattering of rather good ideas, some of which get spotted and worked on and improved, and, in the long term, improve the lot of all.

Treating bugs like a holy grail (*) is not, in my opinion, a great way to achieve what might help, which is more committed triagers. Or don't you want that? Weeding out the inanities is probably a job even the numpties amongst us could do(?)

I've never been in a job of work or play where humour didn't play a part, not even in the military. There are times when it's inappropriate, absolutely. This isn't one of them.

Even Grace had the grace to find humour in debugging...

(*) I now can't get out of my head the visions of King Arthur and his silly English Ker-nigghts womping around the countryside in search for same. Oh well, another normal day on the job then.

Easy, people don't take a look at the situation from all sides, arrive at the conclusion that the evil maemo.org people are trying to keep down the little guy and it results in more vitriol and bile getting spread around.

Your idea of the results only occurs when the initial posting here manages to take a neutral view of the issue. lcuk, unfortunately, set things up to bias the unhumored reading it against the triagers working hard in Bugzilla.

Yes, and that's why you're not causing the problems with bugzilla.

Moving the comment boxis a good idea and may help but I don't think that it will solve the problem. The comment box on talk is at the bottom of the screen and yet there are dozens of examples where the same question is asked and answered repeatedly within a thread.
Maybe I'm just cynical.

GA, I support you 100% on this one. I'm not saying the system is perfect, but this is one area where I have no problem with people erring on the side of humorless. And if people continue to not understand this, I might be forced to tell the only Finnish joke I know. But that's unlikely.

Whou...
Hey guys!

We want to keep bugzilla nice and tidy and efficent. Right?

Situation now:

Some people are chatting and making incomplete bug reports (BUT incomplete maybe better than non, but more about this later). All this is making whole process actually harder. When talking about bugzilla we can talk about so called noise and that place should be somehow a bit hostile or demanding if we wan to say it nicer way. It´s not probably newbies fault because we encourage people to go there and make bug reports and reality is that you should read all the information about bug reporting from wiki (I haven't read, i do not have time) before you make you report. Not all are natural born bug report writers

SO Why on earth we do not have BUGs forum area here. It would make complete sense. There could be couple of stickys where all the important wiki and other links are collected and couple of GOOD examples how to report bug.

This would be also great place for bug squad whose mission would be to make bug reporting better. Newbies could first report their bugs on forum and then bug reporting squad would try to get information from user and make hints how she/he could make report better.

BUT I think that bug reporting in bugzilla should still stay open to all, but bug-area here would suck most of the "noise" what is now going on bugzilla.

So users would still be able to make noise in bugzilla, but they would have exact place to go (right now its just talk.maemo) and rant their issue. After review and help iterations from bug squad it could be decent bug report. Only thing that I would demand from this squad is that they would never ever engage to insults :| Concentrate only to users issue even though we have total ******* on the other side.

So make your suggestions and smash mine

I take your point, although I didn't read the post like that at all. In fact, I saw an attempt to engage the community via the time-honoured British tradition of sarcastic humour. It has the effect of engaging, encouraging critical thought, and, yes, pissing people off. (It's possible I misread the sarcasm bit, but this is how I read it anyway - I'm a Brit after all)

But like I said in another post, I'd like us all to get along(!)

I dunno about the bias though. I have found a bunch of different people here: those who have the preconceived idea of evil you present (and I know, there are some idiots in the world) and those who will read, see the humour, and perhaps get something out of it (hence me 'I'll bite' comment with a link to be able to help, just to nudge some the right way in case).

I'd be the first to admit I don't know the half of the problems in bugzilla for those triaging. I have said before I find it cumbersome and intimidating. It shouldn't be and I wonder how we can fix that (per RevdKathy amongst others in this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41775) and I know that others feel we shouldn't because we'd only encourage the unwashed masses.

But, consider you might encourage those of us who are squeaky clean behind the ears too. Just a thought.

I have the greatest respect and admiration for anyone who does a job for the community. I know from personal experience it's often thankless, and often misunderstood. You all have my thanks, you've earned it by helping to make the platform I use on a daily basis as excellent as it is. I don't know any of you other than through this forum, but I owe you a pint when next I see you. And you can print this and use it when you do see me (but you have to prove you've triaged at least 3 bugs, I don't give beer away for nothing). I think Andre gets a night's worth of suds.

But, here's the thing. If you're overworked, surely using the community to provide help is the way to try to solve the problem? If you agree it is, what's the best way?

I know someone who was a diplomat with a posting in Finland. He knows lots of Finnish jokes. But they're not appropriate for this forum

Hehe, well, Talk is a forum.

As soon as we get 3.4 installed we can look more closely at changing the bug form UI to be more friendly. Moving the comment box, adding the guided submission form, etc. I'd like to see the bug voting system made more obvious and straightforward, since that's how we want people telling us they experience the bug (rather than commenting).

Bug forum sounds interesting to me. Damn, I agreed with you. I could smite the suggestion if you like, viz:
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No, you're wrong. Only those with a 5 star credit rating may spot and file bugs. A Top Secret clearance is required to fix them.

Any good?
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No, a bugs discussion area to clear out the bugzilla seems like it might work, but I'm honestly not sure whether those with an intimate knowledge of the thing would agree, cos I can't read minds mostly (yes, I admit to failings)