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	Stskeeps	2015-07-02 , 07:56
	Posts: 1,671 \| Thanked: 11,478 times \| Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland	#351

Originally Posted by ZogG

And maybe if you already here and you talk on matter, you would enlighten us all? Because currently i see "you don't understand everything, but i don't want to explain it"

That's your way of interpreting it, not mine.

Edit:

As i understand explaining over IRC or even personal meeting can consume not less time while again, most of people here would be clueless(if you really can add som clearance). Otherwise it's one of the most common Internet answers " I do not have time, I don't want, I'm above it"

Again, that's not what I said.

together with "you are wrong, you don't get everything, there are things you don't know", while it's "valid point", those answers have no argument and any info and if a person especially popular and respectful( and you are, you are excellent dev and respectful maemo member), everyone one would just "wow, put likes, thanks". But just to be clear, if I would do something like that in all arguments in this thread(and it 'm OK of being not that popular here ) and tell people, "while you all have some valid points, you are still so wrong and Jolla is doing it wrong, but I have no time to explain it, if you want facts and info you can come over here to....Israel for beer and I would love to tell you everything and explain why", what if I use this in my argument?

I don't understand this sentence at all.

I understand the problem somehow though. How can we move towards having a general better understanding for everybody here and elsewhere of how mobile business works? Should I blog more about the challenges there are in mobile business?

The mobile world is so multifaceted. Each company that's involved or wanting to partner has their own agendas and reasons.

The key things that's going on in the world right now is:
* Increasing governmental worry of too tight technological dependence on two companies and the pushing out of local companies and services.
* Mobile commerce is where a lot of commerce is going, away from typical e-commerce. Google and Apple sits tightly on m-commerce.
* Our mobile devices that are almost like parts of our minds are not under our control, but that of others.

Last edited by Stskeeps; 2015-07-02 at 08:01.

	Dave999	2015-07-02 , 08:33
	Posts: 7,074 \| Thanked: 9,069 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#352

loved your first hw adoptions blog post. any chance to get another one of these in the future?

__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!

I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...

ggabriel	2015-07-02 , 08:43
Posts: 728 \| Thanked: 1,217 times \| Joined on Oct 2011	#353

Originally Posted by Dave999

I want to listen in on that conversion. Please bring a web cam. I wants to reach full understanding. Information is key...

You want a web cam to witness a conversation on IRC? Isn't it better to, well, join the IRC channel?

juiceme	2015-07-02 , 08:54
Community Council \| Posts: 4,920 \| Thanked: 12,867 times \| Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland	#354

Originally Posted by Stskeeps

* Our mobile devices that are almost like parts of our minds are not under our control, but that of others.

This, I think is one of the often misunderstood/overlooked things that need to be attended.

Nowdays "general public" is used to pushing their personal data into various cloud storages and online accounts managed by either device vendors (MS, Google, Apple) or any number of application providers (sports tracking, photos&videos, health&sleep data, notes, documents, ideas, contribution, contacts&frienship, work history & CV's, financical plans and details, credit history, ...etc ... etc ...)

Many people somehow assume that it is "cool" to do so, that they need to share their lifedetails to "network" to be worthwhile.

The horrible downside of this is that once you upload something, there's no taking it back, and you lose the ownership of your data. Remember, "There is no such thing as The Cloud, there are only other peoples computers"

So. The data is out there, it is not safe from the owners of the services to do whatever they wish with it, and moreover, it is not safe from blackhats breaking into these services (as has so often been demonstrated)

Identity theft and personal data theft can make you feel really badly violated and raped. Even as you may "lose" nothing it hurts you, and when you lose money it hurts more.

Now, in a few years this is really going to change a lot; as currently mobile devices may "feel like extension of our minds" it is pretty evident that devices will become extensions of our mind.
This means that there will be devices that we can directly link into our conciousness, regardless of whatever the physical link layer or form of device will be.
Imagine the possibilities with such exomind/exomemory; being able to "google" for a query in your mind, and getting the results in your memory. Or getting an image pop into your mind from your photo collection when you think of it. Imagine being able to communicate and contribute to your community by just thinking about it.

This is going to change the world in fairly radical ways indeed.

And as things currently are, people will jump straight in without safeguards, with trusting the application and platform providers... No lessons learned from the current situation.

If getting your mobile and cloud based accounts hacked feels bad, just think what it will be like when your mind is hacked.

	Dave999	2015-07-02 , 09:35
	Posts: 7,074 \| Thanked: 9,069 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#355

he added the Irc option aftermy initial post

the mobile device is not in our control. well.the buyer select what to buy... then nither is our cars, travel paths, wasing machines, our birth place, tvs and so so forth...

I have no control over jolla inormation flow either...

__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!

I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...

	pichlo	2015-07-02 , 09:42
	Posts: 6,446 \| Thanked: 20,981 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#356

Originally Posted by Stskeeps

Originally Posted by ZogG
And maybe if you already here and you talk on matter, you would enlighten us all? Because currently i see "you don't understand everything, but i don't want to explain it"

That's your way of interpreting it, not mine.

Please bear in mind that ZogG is not a native English speaker and that his way of expressing things in English may not be as eloquent as yours.

Having said that, I have to agree with him. My reading of your response to bluefoot was pretty much along the same lines as ZogG's.

Originally Posted by Stskeeps

Originally Posted by ZogG
As i understand explaining over IRC or even personal meeting can consume not less time while again, most of people here would be clueless(if you really can add som clearance). Otherwise it's one of the most common Internet answers " I do not have time, I don't want, I'm above it"

Again, that's not what I said.

Correct, that is not what you said. But again, I have to give it to ZogG: you say you do not have the time to explain things properly in a TMO post yet you offer bluefoot a meeting in a pub. That seems a bit... paradoxical to me. In my experience, writing a well thought-out TMO post can take anywhere between one and two hours. Taking the time to go to the pub at the other side of Helsinki, spending an evening there and then getting back is bound to take twice as long. And all you have achieved is explaining things to bluefoot. Do you think he will run and share the results with us? I find it hard to believe. Do you want to meet every single one of us in person one by one? Would it not be a better use of your time to spend the two hours and write the TMO post?

JulmaHerra	2015-07-02 , 09:47
Posts: 285 \| Thanked: 1,900 times \| Joined on Feb 2010	#357

Judging by experiences so far, that one or two hours would be only the beginning of countless hours of explanations for new questions/speculation ending with regular "oh did you see, they don't communicate at all" when time finally runs out... However, it wouldn't be a bad thing to explain several things here as there seems to be interest for clarification/details on some issues.

ggabriel	2015-07-02 , 09:54
Posts: 728 \| Thanked: 1,217 times \| Joined on Oct 2011	#358

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra

Judging by experiences so far, that one or two hours would be only the beginning of countless hours of explanations for new questions/speculation ending with regular "oh did you see, they don't communicate at all" when time finally runs out... However, it wouldn't be a bad thing to explain several things here as there seems to be interest for clarification/details on some issues.

I have to agree, in fact, you can easily spend hours discussing the challenges of the business model of a taxi company, and that's trivial in comparison to the "making mobile phones hw and sw" business, which I admit not to understand in its entirety.

Having said all that, it would be nice to have sources to learn more. However, the risk is that the audience will get bored and all that time spent putting together the sources would be lost.

	pichlo	2015-07-02 , 09:54
	Posts: 6,446 \| Thanked: 20,981 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#359

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra

Judging by experiences so far,

What experience? Show me one example of Stskeeps' post starting a chain of speculations rather than putting a stop to it.

Heck, I will be even more generous. Show me one exmaple of any official statement from Jolla that starts a chain of speculations rather than putting a stop to it.

Speculations are born from the lack of information, not the presence of it.

szopin	2015-07-02 , 09:59
Posts: 2,076 \| Thanked: 3,268 times \| Joined on Feb 2011	#360

Originally Posted by pichlo

What experience? Show me one example of Stskeeps' post starting a chain of speculations rather than putting a stop to it.

Heck, I will be even more generous. Show me one exmaple of any official statement from Jolla that starts a chain of speculations rather than putting a stop to it.

Speculations are born from the lack of information, not the presence of it.

They released information about problems with display, see where that went. If they kept shut and just working we wouldn't have a flurry of: based on that one bit of information, let me give you my speculations/wild guesses why the company is being mismanaged/misPRed/backers misled

edit2: who am I kidding, they already are going for: 'based on no information', whatever, it'll get twisted anyway

edit: would love more info, but lets not kid ourselves, every bit they release is being repurposed by a few repeating names here to fit their narrative of failure

Last edited by szopin; 2015-07-02 at 10:04.