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2010-06-11
, 16:28
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Posts: 11,700 |
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#32
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Originally Posted by cfh11
Heh... I would, except some disagree with it even being mentioned.
Great post Texrat. One request I have though - can you make the font on "Silence on Flash 10.1" 10x bigger and bold type?
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-06-11
, 16:39
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Posts: 1,062 |
Thanked: 961 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Boston, MA
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#33
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Well, regardless of whether or not you care if the n900 gets flash 10.1 you would have to agree that the silence is deafening.
Heh... I would, except some disagree with it even being mentioned.
Another point I strongly agree with is the benefit of the community assisting with QA/bugfixes. If we had the ability to resolve bugs and add features to Maemo the same way that apps are approved this device would take a huge leap forward within a matter of weeks.
I'm not saying that the devs at Nokia aren't working hard enough or that their fixes and enhancements aren't good enough. On the contrary - despite its faults the n900 is an amazing device with an amazing "personality" and it gets better every day. But I think that the power of 1000s of people working towards the same goal can be a very powerful thing
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2010-06-11
, 18:53
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Posts: 3,105 |
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Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#34
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About "MeeGo-Harmattan" see the reply in the corresponding thread and follow there on this topic if you are interested:
Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
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2010-06-11
, 19:06
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#35
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About PR1.2 Closed Testing, couldn't find any thread discussing this but if there is one please point to it or if you want to discuss further please create on and let's move the discussion there.
The semi-open testing for PR1.1 was an interesting experiment that was found to be less than more useful. And not because of the contributions received (very good ones) but all the context forced by this situation. The root of the problem was again to mix open source expectations with a commercial release made of open and proprietary components.
The real thing comes when you can separate open from closed, public from confidential. See what is being cooked at http://wiki.meego.com/Quality_Assurance_Team + http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Release_Creation which fulfils (and if those guys get it right exceeds) the expectations of those of you running alpha/beta/pre-releases of your favorite piece of open source software.
No corporate confidentiality, no certifications, no legal liabilities, no peer/media pressure to know about something confidential... all this in a context of public release process and calendar defined by weekly unstable releases where fixes can be fast integrated and verified.
The experiment of PR1.1 was interesting but couldn't be repeated and even less scaled without putting Nokia and the testers under counterproductive tension and risks.
Breaking from past tradition, Nokia extended early testing privileges to select maemo.org community members for the PR1.1 update. As far as I’m aware Nokia’s request to limit discussion was honored so it came as a surprise when Nokia reverted and closed PR1.2 to external testing. That wasn’t helped by delays which might well have been mitigated by including additional trusted testers into the process.
I’ll be disappointed if there is no PR1.3 for Maemo 5, and even more so if the community doesn’t get a chance to test it prior to formal release. Come on, Nokia, let us help quality assurance!
The real thing comes when you can separate open from closed, public from confidential. See what is being cooked at http://wiki.meego.com/Quality_Assurance_Team + http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Release_Creation which fulfils (and if those guys get it right exceeds) the expectations of those of you running alpha/beta/pre-releases of your favorite piece of open source software.
No corporate confidentiality, no certifications, no legal liabilities, no peer/media pressure to know about something confidential... all this in a context of public release process and calendar defined by weekly unstable releases where fixes can be fast integrated and verified.
The experiment of PR1.1 was interesting but couldn't be repeated and even less scaled without putting Nokia and the testers under counterproductive tension and risks.
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2010-06-11
, 19:13
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#36
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
I just want to agree with that and I have a puppy here which is nice and gentle and friendly -- if anyone repeats that quote again, I 'm going to kill this puppy!
I am SICK of the stupid coment "you should have done your research properly"
Just kidding, but now that I have TWO N900s I feel really entitled to voice my criticism, so the gloves are off!
And I really wish this site was not sponsored by Nokia.
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2010-06-11
, 19:17
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Posts: 3,105 |
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Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#37
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texrat, the rest of points you raise are related more to commercial than to maemo.org / open source / community / developer aspects. Out of my scope, and the best I can do is to help getting the right people/channels to communicate this not to maemo.org but to the whole N900 customer base.
I can brainstorm, discuss and even joke publicly about the topics related to the area I'm responsible of (open source / MeeGo / Maemo communities). I have this freedom in order to do efficiently my job in the community channels. But I simply can't speculate or announce anything somewhere here on commercial topics that the Nokia spokespersons or official channels haven't announced yet.
As Nokia N900 customers you could better organize your feedback around Nokia Care or Nokia Conversations rather than here in a community forum.
I can brainstorm, discuss and even joke publicly about the topics related to the area I'm responsible of (open source / MeeGo / Maemo communities). I have this freedom in order to do efficiently my job in the community channels. But I simply can't speculate or announce anything somewhere here on commercial topics that the Nokia spokespersons or official channels haven't announced yet.
As Nokia N900 customers you could better organize your feedback around Nokia Care or Nokia Conversations rather than here in a community forum.
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2010-06-11
, 19:18
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Posts: 11,700 |
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#38
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Originally Posted by qgil
So what does that say for MeeGo?
The experiment of PR1.1 was interesting but couldn't be repeated and even less scaled without putting Nokia and the testers under counterproductive tension and risks.
I'm really concerned...
Originally Posted by qgil
Yes, for end users, but I don't see that for power users, testers, developers and other leaders. I tried engaging those forums from such a perspective and was put off. They really have no infrastructure and process for differentiating levels of user engagement it seems.
As Nokia N900 customers you could better organize your feedback around Nokia Care or Nokia Conversations rather than here in a community forum.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2010-06-11 at 19:21.
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2010-06-11
, 19:22
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#39
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Originally Posted by Texrat
I'll toss out a conjecture:
So what does that say for MeeGo?
I'm really concerned...
Anyone running the Nokia official builds of MeeGo on their MeeGo based devices will have to deal with what we just went through with PR1.2.
Those that switch to the community build will likely have a faster update cycle, unless someone thinks it a good idea to throw a wrench in the works.
Hit? Miss?
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2010-06-11
, 19:34
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Posts: 3,105 |
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@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#40
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And to finish with http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com...teps-for-2010/
If the expectation and the parameter of measure is "open source" then yes, Maemo has been carrying many problems, in fact since its origins. Ultimately these problems go down to the mixture of open and closed components and processes, that impede to satisfy the expectations of an open source community. MeeGo is the solution proposed to this problem, aiming to push an open project with open dialog, evolutionary architecture and releases, all around a developer community.
If the expectation and the parameter of measure is "mobile platform" then I believe Maemo still is better than many alternatives in terms of openness, dialog and community. Product continuity is another story, but again if you look at the obstacles you will find that they are rooted in the closed/business parts of the project.
And well, it's always easy to blame the closed/business side of things but in the case of Maemo they have been crucial making this project scale in the agenda and priorities of a company like Nokia, instead of ending up like other alternative that didn't have such closed/business driver but then...
This is a company releasing products, competing in markets. Our salaries to do this work and the big investment to make these products come from somewhere. The community is extremely important but without the business all we would be somewhere else now.
What the Community Would Like to See
I’ve already answered this but to summarize:
* Openness
* Clear dialog
* Product Continuity
* Community support
Given that Nokia will be relying on open source operating systems going forward, the default engagement mode for the company must be open if future efforts are to succeed.
If the expectation and the parameter of measure is "mobile platform" then I believe Maemo still is better than many alternatives in terms of openness, dialog and community. Product continuity is another story, but again if you look at the obstacles you will find that they are rooted in the closed/business parts of the project.
And well, it's always easy to blame the closed/business side of things but in the case of Maemo they have been crucial making this project scale in the agenda and priorities of a company like Nokia, instead of ending up like other alternative that didn't have such closed/business driver but then...
This is a company releasing products, competing in markets. Our salaries to do this work and the big investment to make these products come from somewhere. The community is extremely important but without the business all we would be somewhere else now.
And for my part, I've been doing the same for people who ask about this device. Most of the time I wind up steering people away (when it's clear they shouldn't be using a device like this). But the behavior of some of the posters now can't be justified by "sticking around to warn other potential buyers"