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2011-06-22
, 17:27
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#32
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Maybe i wasn't clear enough in my first post but the N900 was open enough for me(like you said, it hit a sweet spot, the current Android form just doesn't tickle my fancy) and i am looking for something that will prolong that experience(a beefed up, refreshed N900) so saying that OpenMoko is the only thing that qualifies as a geek phone is an exaggeration.
Last edited by Daneel; 2011-06-22 at 17:30.
Last edited by Daneel; 2011-06-22 at 17:30.
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2011-06-22
, 17:29
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#33
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Originally Posted by sethstorm
Ask Nokia. I find that whole fragmentation silly. Release one with a keyboard, one without... let the consumer/developer/whomever decide.
Why should the developers get the keyboard while consumers have to go without? There are plenty of consumers that also are developers, just not blessed with Nokia's approval to get a N950.
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2011-06-22
, 17:30
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#34
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Originally Posted by Daneel
Last I checked, the N9 is new, the N900 isn't being manufactured any longer.
Maybe i wasn't clear enough in my first post but the N900 was open enough for me and i am looking for something that will continue that experience so saying that OpenMoko is the only thing that qualifies as a geek phone is an exaggeration.
So exaggeration based on that; I think not. Glad you found the N900 open enough for you and the N9 isn't open enough for you it seems... so what part of that aforesaid logic is incorrect?
As it stands, within a few months, your ability to find a new, still in the box N900 will be dependent on back stock. That's not exactly what I'd call ideal.
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2011-06-22
, 17:37
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Joined on Nov 2010
@ BONDY, FRANCE
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#35
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Originally Posted by gerbick
I think the N900 is more free...
Last I checked, the N9 is new, the N900 isn't being manufactured any longer.
So exaggeration based on that; I think not. Glad you found the N900 open enough for you and the N9 isn't open enough for you it seems... so what part of that aforesaid logic is incorrect?
As it stands, within a few months, your ability to find a new, still in the box N900 will be dependent on back stock. That's not exactly what I'd call ideal.
And N900 have a physical keyboard!
It's amazing to know that Nokia don't heard us!
The N9 is very pretty, but not so powerfull (only one processor) and without keyboard, some geeks will keep the best Linux phone, the Nokia N900!
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Mulder FOX
Nokia N900 PR1.3@1GHz
Mulder FOXNokia N900 PR1.3@1GHz
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2011-06-22
, 17:37
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Posts: 549 |
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Joined on Apr 2010
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#36
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Edited my post for a bit of clarity.
Last I checked, the N9 is new, the N900 isn't being manufactured any longer.
So exaggeration based on that; I think not. Glad you found the N900 open enough for you and the N9 isn't open enough for you it seems... so what part of that aforesaid logic is incorrect?
As it stands, within a few months, your ability to find a new, still in the box N900 will be dependent on back stock. That's not exactly what I'd call ideal.
The chances of such device are slim at best hence this thread.
I am pretty confident that many of the TMO members and other IT enthusiasts not limited to the TMO realm have similar needs as mine.
Some of those will take the "one step forward, two steps back" and buy the N9, others wont.
Are those others so few that no big company finds it profitable enough to design a device according to the needs of those others?
Last edited by Daneel; 2011-06-22 at 17:41.
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2011-06-22
, 17:39
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Joined on Dec 2007
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#37
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Hi, I'm daperl, an actual Maemo 5, Maemo 4, former iOS and just-starting Harmattan developer. You're spreading FUD. Please don't.
Hi, I'm gerbick. I tend to play devil's advocate. This would be one of those times...
...
But if that's the case, then let's be honest... this isn't an open phone either. Neither is Android. Neither is iOS. So in that regard, the whole idea of "it's open" needs to be dropped from people mouths and the truth needs to be said... this is a pretty UI on top of a Linux kernel that might/might not be more or less open than its competition.
Open isn't binary (that's kinda geek funny), it's a spectrum. You can't talk about the "openness" or "closedness" of Diablo/Fremantle/Harmattan and iOS in the same sentence and still be credible.
When us developers and hackers finish going through the APIs, we'll let you know how open or closed Harmattan is. Thanks.
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N9: Go white or go home
N9: Go white or go home
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2011-06-22
, 17:40
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Joined on Jan 2010
@ uk
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#38
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One small step for Nokia, one giant step backwards for maemo kind.
It really is a big dissapointment in terms of hardware specs. Sure it LOOKS nice, and has a half decent looking camera, but processor is already almost out of date and no hardware keyboard. It's big myth that 'nobody wants a hardware keyboard'. Salespeople in phone shops keep telling my wife SHE doesn't want one, but ever since she played with my n900 she has been waiting for a decent android phone WITH a keyboard. People buy what is in the shop and not many people wait for long. They will just do without. There are a few people at work with iphones and most of them have said 'I wish these had hw keyboards'. If the companies make them, people will buy them. Perhaps one day in the future there will be a 'clip on/off' keyboard that integrates with several phones and can slide in/out.
Anyway what I really wanted to say/ask was that with the dissapointing hardware of the n9, what about turning an already existing device into a 'geek phone'. A good start might be the SE xperia pro, which my wife has decided she wants. It's got better specs, a hw keyboard. Comes with android. I've been reading about alien dalvik and what it could do for meego, BUT what could it do in reverse? Is that even possible- i.e to put alien dalvik on an android phone, and get it to run maemo/meego stuff, or actually achieve what may be the holy grail of allowing boot of maemo 5 or meego. So instead of using an n900 to dual boot NITdroid or maemo, you could use whatever adroid phone to dual boot adroid or maemo etc.
THEN it could be like having a new geek phone available to choose from every few months, every time an adroid hw keyboard device is released. Everyone could potentially have maemo/meego put on it.
Does anyone know more info about that possibility?
It really is a big dissapointment in terms of hardware specs. Sure it LOOKS nice, and has a half decent looking camera, but processor is already almost out of date and no hardware keyboard. It's big myth that 'nobody wants a hardware keyboard'. Salespeople in phone shops keep telling my wife SHE doesn't want one, but ever since she played with my n900 she has been waiting for a decent android phone WITH a keyboard. People buy what is in the shop and not many people wait for long. They will just do without. There are a few people at work with iphones and most of them have said 'I wish these had hw keyboards'. If the companies make them, people will buy them. Perhaps one day in the future there will be a 'clip on/off' keyboard that integrates with several phones and can slide in/out.
Anyway what I really wanted to say/ask was that with the dissapointing hardware of the n9, what about turning an already existing device into a 'geek phone'. A good start might be the SE xperia pro, which my wife has decided she wants. It's got better specs, a hw keyboard. Comes with android. I've been reading about alien dalvik and what it could do for meego, BUT what could it do in reverse? Is that even possible- i.e to put alien dalvik on an android phone, and get it to run maemo/meego stuff, or actually achieve what may be the holy grail of allowing boot of maemo 5 or meego. So instead of using an n900 to dual boot NITdroid or maemo, you could use whatever adroid phone to dual boot adroid or maemo etc.
THEN it could be like having a new geek phone available to choose from every few months, every time an adroid hw keyboard device is released. Everyone could potentially have maemo/meego put on it.
Does anyone know more info about that possibility?
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2011-06-22
, 17:51
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@ Edmonton, AB
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#39
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who is going to compromise and buy an imperfect device?
EVERYONE
what manufacturer is going to make a phone that has every possible feature?
...
try to choose a device that exists rather than complaining forever.
EVERYONE
what manufacturer is going to make a phone that has every possible feature?
...
try to choose a device that exists rather than complaining forever.
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2011-06-22
, 17:51
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Posts: 1,513 |
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Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#40
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Originally Posted by Daneel
The reason was alluded to by Gerbick. Cellphones with mass consumer appeal command high prices and garner good profit margins. Add to that the "ecosystem" related profits. No big company wants to forego those profits for a low profit margin open phone. Nokia flirted with it, but has now turned away. Our hope is the Tier 3 manufacturer who can't hope to compete for those same profits as the big companies. In the past, they might have turned to Android, hopefully they will turn to MeeGo in the future and we can leverage from there with what we have in the community.
The chances of such device are slim at best hence this thread.
I am pretty confident that many of the TMO members and other IT enthusiasts not limited to the TMO realm have similar needs as mine.
Some of those will take the "one step forward, two steps back" and buy the N9, others wont.
Are those others so few that no big company finds it profitable enough to design a device according to the needs of those others?
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| boo hoo, epic fail, goodbye nokia, nerd rage, pleasing geeks, sell at loss |
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Just like I think that having an OS that has no support by any worthwhile vendor more than just one iteration of paid for software is worth a crap either.
I get what you're saying, but adding features to a phone that people used in a minority is called wasteful. And ultimately, the N9 is clearly not aimed at the core TMO member. Right now, people are justifying purchasing one - no hardware keyboard, no FM transmitter, the continued use of the OMAP3 CPU, it's no more open than the prior iteration of Maemo, no talk(s) about Flash, et al yet, even the switch to the Webkit2 based browser - is all being justified around here because... well, the N900 is getting old. This is the new shiny, shiny.
And as it stands, the so-called core features that people flocked around here aren't consumer friendly to begin with. Who releases a FM transmitter than won't work when you plug it in? Who releases a phone that will fill up the root fs if the apps aren't wisely optified? Who releases a phone to replace the aforementioned phone and removes: the keyboard, the FM transmitter, microB, sd card slot?
N900 (somehow) hit a sweet spot with geeks. N9 is hitting a sweet spot with non-geeks. And neither will sell half as well as a Galaxy S and its variations.
So yeah... I can nitpick on the FM transmitter. I found it a useless feature. Same for current phones with NFC - no use for that either. Hell... I don't have much use for the N9 to be honest. But for totally different reasons than you lot are going about...
I just think it's overpriced. Plastic phones shouldn't start at $660. Especially ones that do not have a way to expand the memory.