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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-11 , 05:22
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#31
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
So, instead of basing the site name on an operating system Nokia abandoned in the spring of 2010, we'll base the site name on a product line Nokia abandoned in the fall of 2008? For the future!
OMIGOD! What does it say under the screen???



Clearly, that PROPER NOUN shouldn't be used in a non-Nokia product! Not as a PROPER NOUN! Good thing they didn't capitalize even a SINGLE letter of that PROPER NOUN of their product's name.

But then... I guess they're not the only ones using that term...

http://www.elocitynow.com/prod_a7.shtml
http://www.compusa.com/applications/...231&CatId=6957
http://www.archos.com/products/ta/ar...x.html?lang=en

Yadda-yadda-yadda... oh hell.. just go here, already:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet

If you rail against the "Internet" part of it and prefer to just be a TABLET TALK, I'll be all for that too, then. :P

Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
There are many non-maemo related discussions gping on here everyday.

Why aren't there more users wanting to congregate here? Just off the top of my head, the name? Maybe the generally outright hostile attitude towards them when they do show up?
Yes, I don't understand the attitude that Maemo is the best and the only thing with any valuable qualities. Diversity of opinions and approach is what creates and adds value to a culture and product, but it doesn't appear to be as widely appreciated here as it often is in the more successful "open source" environments and forums and it sometimes almost resembles a sort of "cleansing" whenever you're outed as someone that ended up buying something other than Maemo--that is, suddenly your opinion and perspective no longer matters here and it feels as if you are expected to BUY your way into a valid one. This, in addition to the name itself, is likely why there hasn't been a beating down of doors and the popularity rise you would expect from a more diverse "Internet tablets" (there--happy with the lower case?) forum.

Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
"internet tablet" could and should cover a lot of ground.

Frankly, whatever we call it, the community should set a goal to be independent of Nokia (as much as possible) in six months. I don't want to be a dog begging for scraps at Nokia's feet. I'd rather show Nokia we don't need them as much as they need us.

The community doesn't need Nokia to survive. Nokia needs the community to have a number of apps ready for the N9 launch. If not for the community, the N9 will have a very few apps for launch. The story on all the sites/blogs would be no apps, no ecosystem, no buy.

I'd say Nokia needs the community more than ever, except Nokia has already committed to the failed of the N9.

At any rate I'm sure quite a few people here are content to sit at Nokia's feet and beg for scraps. At the end Nokia will pull the plug to resounding "but, but, somebody said, somebody promised", and the response from Nokia will be "....".
Actually, I would argue that we probably shouldn't completely shun the N9. I would recommend embracing it along with everything else. Granted, we should make a point that we don't NEED Nokia, but I don't think it's fair to EXCLUDE the N9 just to make a point when it still (barely) falls within the whole "Internet tablet" alongside the 770/N8x0/N9x0's. But I think that if we had to back a horse with regards to this pedigree, I would probably back MeeGo as the successor to Maemo (REAL MeeGo, not that abomination they vomited onto the N9) and probably follow Intel's efforts more closely and start speaking to them about helping to fund the forums in addition to anyone else that would like to buy ads or sponsorship on this forum space and talk with us for press releases, reviews and other more valuable efforts to be a more intelligent site than Nokia allowed it to be.

Just my two cents... (although, if you read all my old posts talking about my expectations and ideas, my two cents over time keeps seeming to pan out as a pretty good investment... just saying! heh)
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sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2011-07-11 , 05:31
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#32
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
OMIGOD! What does it say under the screen?
I am shocked--SHOCKED!--to learn that after Nokia announced the 770 Internet Tablet and Reggie created the site on it's account other companies made competing products and used similar terminology in reference to them. You have shaken me to my core, good sir!
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-11 , 05:48
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#33
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
I am shocked--SHOCKED!--to learn that after Nokia announced the 770 Internet Tablet and Reggie created the site on it's account other companies made competing products and used similar terminology in reference to them. You have shaken me to my core, good sir!
I'm equally shocked.. SHOCKED that something Nokia started doing (Internet tablets), everybody else started to do... and do MORE and BETTER over time. Perhaps, just maybe, the moniker has more relevance now that it's being more widely adopted. GASP and MELODRAMA!
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-11 , 05:58
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#34
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
I would guess that at least 50% of N900 users have ANOTHER modern mobile phone that IS NOT FROM NOKIA!
I'm SHOCKED, I tell you! SHOCKED! ...even at the ones that DON'T have another modern mobile phone!
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2011-07-11 , 07:18
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#35
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
There is a GIANT Android thread; maybe Jaffa didn't notice. And, ever hear of Nitdroid? Ever notice typing appearing in the Competitors thread?
Yes, I did notice. I also noticed that all the discussions have a common foundation: Maemo and the range of Nokia hardware running Maemo.

The world is wide open for a revival of ITT. A site that is loyal to NO ONE but quality. The INDEPENDENT tablet site, where we had tablets before Apple did.
"Independent" means bills.

We have a unique chance to become a big power in the future of Internet Tablets. Or we can stay chained to Nokia and a fading Maemo.
I'm interested in your proposal and business case. It'll need to make money, as part of the premise seems to be cutting ties to Nokia and becoming "independent". Seriously, I'll invest cash for a good ROI & plan; and a part of being "a big power in the future of Internet Tablets".

Just make sure it's more than "change the name, and they will come".

To pitch it to the Community Council, it'll need to cover the other services on maemo.org as well (the ones which are more relevant to the developers and end-users of the platform). After all, they're not the TMO Community Council.
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-11 , 08:28
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#36
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
Originally Posted by geneven View Post
There is a GIANT Android thread; maybe Jaffa didn't notice. And, ever hear of Nitdroid? Ever notice typing appearing in the Competitors thread?
Yes, I did notice. I also noticed that all the discussions have a common foundation: Maemo and the range of Nokia hardware running Maemo.

What?? Where's the Maemo and Nokia hardware running Maemo discussion in threads like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61003 (which I'm sure was the "GIANT Android thread" he's referring to, but one of the many numerous "competitors" threads that don't really discuss Maemo at all). Weird, man. You went off into some weird direction with your answer, as if you were distracted when you meant to answer--and then answered some other question/topic he didn't mention. Did I misinterpret something?

Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
"Independent" means bills.
Nokia will be cutting the purse strings anyway... that STILL means bills. Either way, if we open up to a broader set of devices, that open up the possibility of income from perhaps far more responsible sponsors or advertisers.

Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
I'm interested in your proposal and business case. It'll need to make money, as part of the premise seems to be cutting ties to Nokia and becoming "independent". Seriously, I'll invest cash for a good ROI & plan; and a part of being "a big power in the future of Internet Tablets".

Just make sure it's more than "change the name, and they will come".

To pitch it to the Community Council, it'll need to cover the other services on maemo.org as well (the ones which are more relevant to the developers and end-users of the platform). After all, they're not the TMO Community Council.
Changing the name is a big part of it--it's an identity change. Check out what I'd said earlier (a few posts ago in this thread).
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2011-07-11 , 08:35
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#37
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
What?? Where's the Maemo and Nokia hardware running Maemo discussion in threads like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=61003 [...] Weird, man. You went off into some weird direction with your answer, as if you were distracted when you meant to answer
I suggest you reread my response. My point was a community exists through common values and shared experiences. The discussion of Android in those threads is based on the people's experiences of Maemo and Nokia. Not that all threads are about Maemo & Nokia.

Nokia will be cutting the purse strings anyway... that STILL means bills. Either way, if we open up to a broader set of devices, that open up the possibility of income from perhaps far more responsible sponsors or advertisers.
And it's been pointed out that running the forum is one of the smallest parts of that cost.
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2011-07-11 , 10:28
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#38
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
Thanks for the comments. All options can be considered by the community, including continuing with maemo.org when formal Nokia support ends after at least one year. Nokia abandoning the maemo trademark and governance over maemo.org can be viewed as an opportunity. Self-funding can be considered for the community - over 1000 euros was provided solely by the community for the Coding Competition. We can try to port maemo to the extent possible. We've already started a post-N900 strategy with the Cordia project, which aims to get as much of open-source maemo on top of MeeGo core.
I think the best approach is to see how the community looks about a year from now. If there are still vibrant efforts (like CSSU) going on then, we would be more than happy to help the community migrate to a new hosting environment.
 

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2011-07-11 , 10:45
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#39
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
I'm interested in your proposal and business case. It'll need to make money, as part of the premise seems to be cutting ties to Nokia and becoming "independent". Seriously, I'll invest cash for a good ROI & plan; and a part of being "a big power in the future of Internet Tablets".

Just make sure it's more than "change the name, and they will come".

To pitch it to the Community Council, it'll need to cover the other services on maemo.org as well (the ones which are more relevant to the developers and end-users of the platform). After all, they're not the TMO Community Council.
This is what I'm interested in as well, although as an open source community I would say "cover expenses" rather than "make money" (and this is probably what Jaffa meant as well). Building the open source software to run a N900 or N8x0 successor as we want is certainly going to take more than a forum. We would need to plan things like budgets, organizational governance, etc.

Originally Posted by Estel View Post
Going back to serious discussion, Maemo/Meego is a mark for me. Sorry, for neophytes, that bought N900 after all fuss with Nokia, Elop, strategy changes and what not, Maemo != Nokia, same for Meego. for me Maemo is Community. In fact, Community that try to have less and less closed source components in devices used today (CSSU etc.), and to have nice core system for future (Meego !=Harmattan - Meego CE with Cordia on top of it? Yup!).

I think that, if/after Nokia cut off, We can do OpenPandora way. Like it or not, we got no better base solution (i mean only open source components, lets let alone all closed parts) than Meego/Maemo. You can't even dream about truly open source device based on Android, not to mention other mobile OS'es. For Meego with mix of Maemo UI, this is at least possible (although require much work).

If You ask few years ago, if Open Office can be 100% independent of Sun, no one would believe. Now we got LibreOffice. I don't see ANY reasons, why Maemo/Meego can't be developed further in open way.
Yes, maybe, but that involves converting maemo.org into a non-profit organization and then running it, which is possible, but goes far beyond a forum. And, can Council do such a thing on their own initiative? I think this is a major step which needs validation by the community membership through an election or some other method.

Originally Posted by bergie View Post
I think the best approach is to see how the community looks about a year from now. If there are still vibrant efforts (like CSSU) going on then, we would be more than happy to help the community migrate to a new hosting environment.
We would certainly appreciate such cooperation. My initial thoughts are that it would take the better part of a year for this all-volunteer community to come to agreement on what the new hosting environment should be and that you should expect inquiries over the next year.
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lemmyslender is offline lemmyslender
2011-07-11 , 14:30
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#40
@danramos

I'm not saying exclude the N9, in fact I welcome including it. I'm pretty sure you understand where I'm going with that, include more, not less. As you point out, that would be an excellent way to attract more sponsors/money, become more inclusive of the "internet tablet" format.

I'm suggesting that we aggressively look at moving what we can off of Nokia paid servers as soon as possible. If that means the forums (as the most insignificant part per Jaffa) first, then let's do it. Host the mailing lists elsewhere. Move what we can well ahead of any deadlines.

Otherwise, we'll get a notification from Nokia (be it a week, a month, or a quarter) and by the time we finish putting together plans, ROI, etc and find the best solution, maemo.org will have been offline line for a couple months. Not much point trying to get back up and running then.

Or we do as Bergie says and wait and see if anyone is still around in a year.

To paraphrase one of my favorite lines: if you'd only have thought about the problem a little longer, it would have gone away.
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