Active Topics

 


Reply
Thread Tools
Kangal's Avatar
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#51
I understand why you want more power, but a port of Maemo/Mer/MeeGo won't be hitting an Android device anytime soon, realistically. I suspect Android devices are locked down to prevent this. And you should know, if it were to happen it won't be as optimized as the real deal (N900) so performance will really take a hit. But you should also know how much power difference their is between your likely candidates:

I found out on a few threads that the OMAP3530 (600MHz) is slower than the Snapdragon (1GHz), no suprise.

But what I also found was it was only marginally faster. Something listed as overclocking the OMAP to nearly 870MHz is equivalent to an underclocked 768MHz Snapdragon (eg Acer Liquid A1). They're both derivatives of ARM's Cortex A8 so no suprise.
Random Google searches, I found that the 3430 can do 1200*** MIP/sec (Millions of Instructions per Second), while the QSD8250 can do 2100. ***In addition, private benchmarkers point that the OMAP is slower (248, 433) than QSD (427, 674) MIPS for Compressing and Decompressing respectively.
However the QSD would obviously have an unfair advantage with double (256->512MB) RAM.***
In terms of CPU, upgrading from the N900 to a QSD device should yield you around 13-46%*** more power, which may or may not be necessary or even accessible for the Applications your running.


On a side note, I've read the QSD doesn't have true graphics accelaration ie a GPU. And this is no suprise, as HTC has been supporting QSD for a long-time and although processor speeds/performance grew (or multiplied) several times over time, the graphics capabilities have never increased substantially. This is because HTC did not buy/include the 3D drivers for their devices, so their was no hardware acceleration.

QSD's can average 22M polygons/sec a number very poor to such a powerful CPU.
The N900 has a dedicated GPU by PowerVr: the SGX530 which (is outdated now) can handle 14M polygons/sec.
Technically a small (30-50%) performance boost.

So, in terms of emulation, upgrading from the N900 to a QSD device should allow you to run much more fluidly with the 35%*** in CPU and 35% GPU power boost. However, as said before, the likelihood that "MaerGo" will be ported is low, let alone an optimized one.
So instead you'd be thinking just go with the Android OS that came with it. But also remember that native applications will always perform better than their "java" counterparts and this will be noticeable on "high-performance" Applications. The overall performance will be very similar (don't expect more than 15% benefit) between the N900 and the Android QSD devices.

Have a look at PSX emulation comparisons between the two platforms, and so you'll see the truth behind it.

Or even compare iPhone 3GS emulators to the QSD devices since the 3GS is also in the power range of the N900 and runs natively!

Glad to share some info to all of you

ed: sorry I can't spell!
*** ed2: I found other sources disproving the MIPS so I've corrected those claims, meaning QSD performs a little better than previously stated but doesn't alter the lasting conclusion/comments.
Those sources are 3GS vs Nexus1 and Private benchmark that confirms the other source for the power difference

Last edited by Kangal; 2010-05-15 at 03:48.
 
Kangal's Avatar
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#52
Also to add:

That being said, comparing the OMAP 3430 and the QSD 8250, the first difference in their architecture is that the 3430 off loads some CPU intensive tasks (video, audio, digital signal processing) to dedicated co-processors (GPU, DPS, etc) while the Snapdragon processes all of it in their CPU.

So, if you are watching a video in the 3430, the main 600 Mhz CPU is doing nothing, letting the GPU work on it; while the 8250 main 1 Ghz CPU is busy decoding the video, which probably takes a fair chunk of that 1 Ghz.

It is a different approach to the solve the same basic problem. I prefer the N900's methods as it means graphics can be superior since those co-processors were designed for that architecture unlike the CPU which is more of a "generic workhorse".
And it also means the N900's CPU is free to do more tasks (ie multitasking) and doing so more efficiently than the QSD's; an added benefit.

edit: Read: Anandtech for more details

Last edited by Kangal; 2010-05-15 at 03:23.
 
Kangal's Avatar
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#53
^ ^bump
 
smoku's Avatar
Posts: 1,716 | Thanked: 3,007 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Warsaw, Poland
#54
I am not looking for power. 900MHz overclocked N900 beats anything available now.
I am looking for thinner form factor, bigger screen, capacitive touch screen, slicker design.
That is why XT701 is an appealing device - with the same hardware as N900 I could just use the same drivers. With a bit of luck building Maemo image for XT701 should not take me a lot of time.
__________________
smoku @xiaoka.com (SMTP/XMPP) ...:.:....:... pebbled . Poky Fish : sixaxis . psx4m . uae4all
Jolla Phone post-mortem . . . . . . . . . . -> 1+1 VGN-UX390N
 
Kangal's Avatar
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#55
Firstly the N900 oc'd to 900MHz doesn't beat everything, a 1GHz Snapdragon should still pull away in most programs/benchmarks. In addition, at 900MHz it would be very unstable and the lifetime of your device will be very limited, not that you care.

I can't think of any reason why you'd want to buy an Android device and put Maemo 5 on it rather than just buying an N900.
Reasons could include: more power, more functions, different or better form factor.

In terms of power, yes there are more powerful devices out there and this would certainly be an advantage. And I've disclosed this with details from previous post, please examine.
More functions, the N900 has everything you could ask for. The only features it lacks are WiMax (which is so scarce it doesn't matter), Gaming controls (but no other device has it), in built TV-tuner (which is only found in KIRFs) and a 8MP Camera for 720p HD video (which doesn't matter since the 5MP Carl Zeiss is great).

Different or better form factor. This is a very subjective field, but I argue this is not so valid since the N900 is a brickform like the iPhone (which gains so much praise) but it is also a slide-out QWERTY form so it succeeds where Apple fails. It is bulkier than other phones but still pocket friendly and portable.

So I cannot see any reasoning for attempting such a port. Am I telling you not to do it: No. It is always great to add some variety to the field like the XDA-chefs. If anything, I would advise you to port it to the HTC EVO 4G/Incredible so we have MaerGo on really impressive phones. Just don't forget to share your accomplishments with the community.

BTW why dont you try the Motorola Milestone/Droid pretty much the same thing as the XT701 but has been released for some time and is actually widely supported, so you can find an apprentice chef to help you.
 
smoku's Avatar
Posts: 1,716 | Thanked: 3,007 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Warsaw, Poland
#56
You're telling me, that my overclocked N900 that is stable as before and does not show any problems, shouldn't be stable. I will keep that information for myself, because if it knew that it might comply. ;-)

I enumerated my reasons for looking for other device, yet you still can't think of any.

I already stated why HTC EVO 4G dropped out of scope, yet you are suggesting this device.

Do you even read my posts, or you already know better without need to do so?
__________________
smoku @xiaoka.com (SMTP/XMPP) ...:.:....:... pebbled . Poky Fish : sixaxis . psx4m . uae4all
Jolla Phone post-mortem . . . . . . . . . . -> 1+1 VGN-UX390N
 
cashclientel's Avatar
Posts: 663 | Thanked: 282 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ London, UK
#57
@Kangal I don't think the OP wanted to get into a debate about performance semantics of the various smart phones on the market.

@smoku - could be really interesting to get Maemo on the Andriod devices. May lead to an increase in interest in Maemo (and thus more apps being developed)
__________________
Nokia are a business and have chosen a path of using the OSS community phenomenon to reduce their overheads specifically after sales support and development. Unlike Apple who do the opposite and make a killing from their Applications store.

Last edited by cashclientel; 2010-05-17 at 11:14.
 
Kangal's Avatar
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#58
@smoku
Thanks, but don't get the wrong message.
I'm not de-motivating you. I'm just saying to me it feels like getting MaerGo ported to the Motorola seems like a waste of effort. It is basically the N900 in a slightly different form (as you've pointed out the differences). But little effort is better than none. I'm grateful you can accomplish something so easy/difficult, as I'm an enthusiast which knows nothing on how to code.
I didn't see you state anything about the HTC EVO 4G so I gave that "advice". I think what you were trying to say was of the old Qualcomm processors based on ARM11, and needing drivers licensed, if I recall properly. This is the case with all Qualcomm processors. And as you said 3D drivers is the dealbreaker.
But I've stated earlier although HTC doesn't buy the drivers, the HTC devices with QSD processor can still do 3D graphics at an average of 22M polygons/sec which is why we can see early N64 emulation on the Nexus One. So even without the driver, it is very capable!
But if it makes you feel any better, its possible to apply a "short-patch" (custom made driver which doesn't work at the max efficiency but still increases performance) as was done to the TyTnII (Tilt), then later to the Diamond/TP/TP2/X1/X2 devices by the XDA-community.

@cashclientel
I wasn't entering a performance debate, but it is good to have solid facts when trying to make a rational point. Agree?

@all
Doing such a port would increase the MaerGo platform. And, if successful, it will be good to attract even more developers to it. What would be unexpected and much praised if this port could dual-boot or even totally erase the original OS, unlike with WinMo devices.
 
Posts: 5,335 | Thanked: 8,187 times | Joined on Mar 2007 @ Pennsylvania, USA
#59
The thread "Running Maemo on Android hardware" with thirteen posts has been merged into this thread.
 
Kangal's Avatar
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#60
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
The thread "Running Maemo on Android hardware" with thirteen posts has been merged into this thread.
Oh..kay?
I'm pro to a little thread clean-up but you've missed putting the first post (OP) of the thread in this merging.
I was very confused reading since its hard to tell who is replying to who when there is no quotation.
Just putting it out there so you'd keep this in mind for next time.
 
Reply

Tags
fremantle, harmattan, install, iphone, maemo, maemo 4, maemo 5, maemo 6, mer, non-nokia, operating system, palm pre


 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:49.