Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms - Page 66 - maemo.org

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shmerl	2013-07-17 , 18:44
Posts: 1,298 \| Thanked: 2,277 times \| Joined on May 2011	#651

Originally Posted by marbleuser

this is indeed looking pretty good to me right now
http://www.ubuntu.com/phone

It looks worse with their whole Mir move. I really hope Sailfish will open up. It's by far the best option otherwise especially since they are going to use Wayland from the start.

Last edited by shmerl; 2013-07-17 at 19:07.

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mikecomputing	2013-07-17 , 19:12
Posts: 3,464 \| Thanked: 5,107 times \| Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden	#652

Originally Posted by marbleuser

dropping X means jolla has a large time horizon, far longer than 2 years. 2 years is a long time in the mobile world.

if they add support for xwayland, then all might be forgiven.

the fact that they're dropping X support so completely has me slightly curious. e.g. is it for 'commercial' reasons.

EDIT: NO X11=Android

ooh for got sake... This is ridicilous discussion. Some geeks are to much old geeks. I have used Linux for 20 years and even me realise X11 is DEADEND!

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Last edited by mikecomputing; 2013-07-17 at 19:17.

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MartinK	2013-07-17 , 19:24
Posts: 1,548 \| Thanked: 7,510 times \| Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic	#653

Originally Posted by Morpog

...as Nemo seems to move to own QML components...

Originally Posted by shmerl

...
The fact that Nemo needs a separate set of components isn't a good thing. It's caused precisely because Sailfish development is rather closed (even though Silica are supposedly open). And it's precisely the duplication of effort that could be avoided.
...

Why oh WHY ? ANOTHER set of components, seriously ?
Is

Harmattan/MeeGo Qt Components
Symbian Qt Components
Fremantle Qt Components
Silica
Ubuntu Qt Components
Controls (Qt 5.1)
Cascades
That old Colibri Intel thing
Plasma Qt Components
MeeGo touch & co

not enough ?

How is an application developer supposed to make a multi-platform application like that ?

I warn you, I have experience with porting Harmattan Qt Components and I'm not afraid to use them.

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mikecomputing	2013-07-17 , 19:25
Posts: 3,464 \| Thanked: 5,107 times \| Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden	#654

Originally Posted by shmerl

Not negative, but concerned. In short Stskeeps said that now things are closed, and future is unknown, but it's not easy to make things open. If you want, make a formal inquiry to Jolla about opening things. Did I sum it up right?

You can assume a few things (but again, these are just assumptions):
1. At the release core applications and UI will remain closed.
2. Jolla is undecided yet about future.

Why I find it concerning:
1. No sharing of effort with Nemo about UI and applications. Ideally I'd even prefer Nemo and Sailfish to merge into one. Or Nemo to become what Fedora is for RHEL (note all of them are open). With Sailfish being closed - it's impossible.
2. Harmattan pitfalls risk.
3. Disadvantage in comparison to fully open systems (Firefox OS).

I'm not trying to be negative, I'm trying to analyze the issue objectively.

As stated by stkeeps and what u see in the current SDK we can expect Silica(biggest part of the UI) IS open source using BSD license. So to me it sounds more like some apps is closed, and thats very logical to me. If they want to sell licenses to others some must be closed. What else could they sell if not?

And btw I DO NOT prefer nemoUI and sailfishUI to merge. But yes core stuff like backend libs should share alot together like sharing/pluginapis etc.... But some of that should actually be merged in Qt project so it could be shared between BB/Ubuntu too...

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Last edited by mikecomputing; 2013-07-17 at 19:29.

marbleuser	2013-07-17 , 19:27
Posts: 154 \| Thanked: 110 times \| Joined on Aug 2011	#655

Originally Posted by mikecomputing

ooh for got sake... This is ridicilous discussion. Some geeks are to much old geeks. I have used Linux for 20 years and even me realise X11 is DEADEND!

my point is backward compatibility. access to that 20 years of development. and not via vnc. xwayland would do nicely, but they seem to have made a deliberate decision to cut off that 20 years of development.

at least we can stop talking about the contribution they're making to opensource now if it's all closed.

	Dave999	2013-07-17 , 19:29
	Posts: 7,074 \| Thanked: 9,069 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#656

Open or closed is not the issue here. To me it's more important to get some solid Intel from jolla so you can make an active decision if this is for you, before you preorder and they are shipping. It's more important to get solid info than what the info contains.

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mikecomputing	2013-07-17 , 19:30
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Originally Posted by marbleuser

my point is backward compatibility. access to that 20 years of development. and not via vnc. xwayland would do nicely, but they seem to have made a deliberate decision to cut off that 20 years of development.

at least we can stop talking about the contribution they're making to opensource now if it's all closed.

Yes thats exacly how stuff works. KDE and Gnome will go same route in some year. Its only way to move forward and totally logical on embedded OS:es too...

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mikecomputing	2013-07-17 , 19:33
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Originally Posted by shmerl

Morpog: Success of the product doesn't necessarily depend on it being closed. Firefox OS is going to be successful to some degree. At least I hope it will.

The fact that Nemo needs a separate set of components isn't a good thing. It's caused precisely because Sailfish development is rather closed (even though Silica are supposedly open). And it's precisely the duplication of effort that could be avoided.

Developing an e-mail client is not trivial. Even if it's just a UI. It's a serious effort. Making two is going to be twice as hard. So I see completely no point in keeping that kind of stuff closed.

yes it is trivial if tehy want to support closed crap protocol like exchange etc.. stuff that people wants.

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mikecomputing	2013-07-17 , 19:35
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Originally Posted by marbleuser

this is indeed looking pretty good to me right now

http://www.ubuntu.com/phone

ROTFL first you dish wayland then you lobbying for an RIPOFF company that actually is using stkeeps libhybris and is NOT so popular company lattely in the FOSS world. Now who is biggest hypocrits