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2009-11-29
, 01:54
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#62
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The good news Jay is it seems we only have to go through this once a year or so. 
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Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-11-29
, 02:11
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Joined on Nov 2009
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#63
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Originally Posted by f pickels
I would encourage you not to send it back straight away pickles. The device itself is actually topnotch
Well, didn't you just prove his point. I agree with a whole lot with what Maemojedi said. And the answer above is point and fact. This is a very negitive and hostel place for anybody thats not part of your digithead club. I have a N900 on the way from Amazon, and I wont even open the box before it goes back.
Originally Posted by christexaport
I don't see how you guys can share with each other but not the rest of the community. It creates a subcommunity by definition.
kids"
Originally Posted by sevla
Exactly!
I won't really comment on the emulator "stuff" cause I'm an advanced and haven't installed emulators since late 90's so I wouldn't even know how. but I will say that there is an overall negative and/or condesending tone to people who either have complaints about the phone or those who are having trouble figuring out certain features.
In almost every thread where someone is referencing things they don't like about the phone at least one or two people come in and say "go buy an iPhone". That's just not the way to treat people and it comes off as beig very pompus and condesending.
Everyone should try being more helpful instead of insulting. This type of attitude is not going to get this platform anywhere. Just my .02.
On signing in I have received a number of emails in support of my experience here. users who have pointed out and directed me to particular threads where they too have been forced to reach the same conclusion as myself.
I also received a pm from a user who it seems signed up to pm me some abuse under the guise of an alias but oh well
I feel no need to be abusive, make fun of anyone be condescending or even curse. Only the need to reiterate that this new platform/device will be built on end users. Regardless of how you value them & choose to interact with them/me.
If you think that statement holds no weight then please look above
Last edited by maemojedi; 2009-11-29 at 02:17.
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2009-11-29
, 02:17
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Joined on Apr 2007
@ Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
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#64
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Originally Posted by maemojedi
No one should be sending you abusive PMs or being insulting towards you either. Golden rule is in effect.
Exactly!
On signing in I have received a number of emails in support of my experience here. users who have pointed out and directed me to particular threads where they too have been forced to reach the same conclusion as myself.
I also received a pm from a user who it seems signed up to pm me some abuse under the guise of an alias but oh well
I feel no need to be abusive, make fun of anyone be condescending or even curse. Only the need to reiterate that this new platform/device will be built on end users. Regardless of how you value them & choose to interact with them/me.
What I wrote a few posts before isn't just something that should apply to you, but to the entire community. Anyone doing that kind of crap is making the rest of us look bad.
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2009-11-29
, 03:27
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Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#65
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The issue is not creating a sub-community or sharing info among ourselves (< whoever that might be). That has never been done here in the past and everything so far has been transparent as far as I know.
This forum has gone out of its way to create WiKi's and FAQ's, and spent many man hours reorganizing to make the place user friendly. A good many of the "veteran" members you see responding in this thread had no, or limited Linux experience when they first started on this forum, myself included. The veteran members are the ones that helped us help ourselves.
Why do we feel so defensive when someone accuses us of being elitist?
It has been my experience that talk.maemo.org is not and never has been that way. If it has changed, it has done so recently and that may be not because of an attitude against new members but because some new members have preconceptions of what this place is about. In fact, most of the snarky replies that I have seen lately have come from members that have joined in this last quarter or shortly before.
In the few cases that a longer term member has replied like a snot other long term members have jumped in to admonish them.
We don't all wear propeller beanies and this is not an episode of "revenge of the nerds"...
That would be childish... just as childish as expecting an immediate answer to any question that may pop up.
This is clear to anyone who looks around and spends anytime reading a posted thread or two. What we can't always be is an on-line source for instant answers... The answers do come so in the mean time search and read. That is all.
There is also the matter of prioritizing as well as faith in the platform itself. This understanding also comes from reading and learning. Things like changing the boot screen animation will come, I know because it was done on the previous tablets. It just is not so high up on the priority list this close to the release date.
I read about one fellow who has already done some interesting stuff in this respect with the N900:
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-11-29 at 03:33.
This forum has gone out of its way to create WiKi's and FAQ's, and spent many man hours reorganizing to make the place user friendly. A good many of the "veteran" members you see responding in this thread had no, or limited Linux experience when they first started on this forum, myself included. The veteran members are the ones that helped us help ourselves.
Why do we feel so defensive when someone accuses us of being elitist?
It has been my experience that talk.maemo.org is not and never has been that way. If it has changed, it has done so recently and that may be not because of an attitude against new members but because some new members have preconceptions of what this place is about. In fact, most of the snarky replies that I have seen lately have come from members that have joined in this last quarter or shortly before.
In the few cases that a longer term member has replied like a snot other long term members have jumped in to admonish them.
We don't all wear propeller beanies and this is not an episode of "revenge of the nerds"...
That would be childish... just as childish as expecting an immediate answer to any question that may pop up.
This is clear to anyone who looks around and spends anytime reading a posted thread or two. What we can't always be is an on-line source for instant answers... The answers do come so in the mean time search and read. That is all.
There is also the matter of prioritizing as well as faith in the platform itself. This understanding also comes from reading and learning. Things like changing the boot screen animation will come, I know because it was done on the previous tablets. It just is not so high up on the priority list this close to the release date.
I read about one fellow who has already done some interesting stuff in this respect with the N900:
Originally Posted by qwerty12
...so my advice to the OP is have a little patience and have a little faith.
Wanted to be able to display something of my own choice on the desktop, instead of seeing my operator's name so I wrote a replacement for the applet responsible.
Custom Operator Name Applet, simply put, allows you to display a label of your own choice in lieu of your network operator's name. You can also choose the text and shadow colours of the label. You can have different labels and colours that are dependent upon the state of the N900 phone connectivity (Connected, connecting, not connected).
Due to hildon-desktop limitations, the N900 must be restarted before the applet is loaded. After that, the applet can be configured from the Control Panel.
Uninstalling the applet - and restarting - will cause the original one to be restored.
Planned:
* Allow you to show the operator's name.
* Allow you to have a (small) image in place of the logo.
* Allow you to see what song is playing in any MAFW-utilising Media Player.
* Show the name of the current profile.
* Show the current volume.
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-11-29 at 03:33.
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2009-11-29
, 03:37
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#66
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Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat
I meant the phase.
No way, i've given the "i'm an end-user" speech at least 4 or 5 times in cases like this, and I've only been here since smarch.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-11-29
, 03:40
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Posts: 107 |
Thanked: 94 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#67
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Maemojedi, let me give a very technical explaination of why people are telling new users to avoid Extras Testing and Extras Development. On previous hard versions, flash storage was just 1 device. It was divided into seperate sections: bootloader, kernel, boot image. Those were very small in relation to the entire flash storage. The rest of the flash storage was devoted to the internal storage. The Operating system, applications, application data and user data where stored in this large areas.
The N900 uses a new flash storage technology. There are two flash storage "chips" (I use the term very loosely). There is a smaller flash storage chip that holds the bootloader, Linux kernel, bootimage, and the operating system. This flash chip is nowhere near the size flash chips uses on older Internet Tablet hardware. There is a 32GB eMMC flash device which is partitions into /opt and MyDocs. /opt is where applications and app data should be installed on the N900. And MyDocs partiion is 25 GBs of storage that also shows up as USB Mass Storage.
Now why does this matter? Because /opt is not the usual base location that Linux software is installed. Applications that have not been opt'ified will be installed on that small flash chip with the Operating System. That is bad. Why? Because of the OS storage fills up, the N900 will stop malfunctioning. And it won't boot either. If the N900 can't boot, it can't recharge the battery. And the N900 won't operate w/o a charged batter. So in essence, the N900 would be bricked. (Recoverable, but now w/o an extra charged battery or an external batter charger. Something that most users won't have).
Why am I telling you all of this? Because most (or all) of the softare in Extras Testing or Extras Development has not been opt'ified. That is configured to install into /opt instead of the OS flash storage. Meaning you could render your N900 inoperable by just installing too much of the wrong software.
Software will be becoming, but it will take some time. Not all of the developers have N900s yet. The development environment will only go far. One needs a N900 to really give software a very through trying. I'm sorry if this sounds condescending, or I'm talking over your head. It's not my aim to do either.
The N900 uses a new flash storage technology. There are two flash storage "chips" (I use the term very loosely). There is a smaller flash storage chip that holds the bootloader, Linux kernel, bootimage, and the operating system. This flash chip is nowhere near the size flash chips uses on older Internet Tablet hardware. There is a 32GB eMMC flash device which is partitions into /opt and MyDocs. /opt is where applications and app data should be installed on the N900. And MyDocs partiion is 25 GBs of storage that also shows up as USB Mass Storage.
Now why does this matter? Because /opt is not the usual base location that Linux software is installed. Applications that have not been opt'ified will be installed on that small flash chip with the Operating System. That is bad. Why? Because of the OS storage fills up, the N900 will stop malfunctioning. And it won't boot either. If the N900 can't boot, it can't recharge the battery. And the N900 won't operate w/o a charged batter. So in essence, the N900 would be bricked. (Recoverable, but now w/o an extra charged battery or an external batter charger. Something that most users won't have).
Why am I telling you all of this? Because most (or all) of the softare in Extras Testing or Extras Development has not been opt'ified. That is configured to install into /opt instead of the OS flash storage. Meaning you could render your N900 inoperable by just installing too much of the wrong software.
Software will be becoming, but it will take some time. Not all of the developers have N900s yet. The development environment will only go far. One needs a N900 to really give software a very through trying. I'm sorry if this sounds condescending, or I'm talking over your head. It's not my aim to do either.
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2009-11-29
, 03:50
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#68
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I think I just heard a fat lady sing and a steam valve vent...
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-11-29
, 03:55
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Posts: 98 |
Thanked: 46 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#69
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Originally Posted by sljonson
Thanks for your input on this.
Maemojedi, let me give a very technical explaination of why people are telling new users to avoid Extras Testing and Extras Development. On previous hard versions, flash storage was just 1 device. It was divided into seperate sections: bootloader, kernel, boot image. Those were very small in relation to the entire flash storage. The rest of the flash storage was devoted to the internal storage. The Operating system, applications, application data and user data where stored in this large areas.
The N900 uses a new flash storage technology. There are two flash storage "chips" (I use the term very loosely). There is a smaller flash storage chip that holds the bootloader, Linux kernel, bootimage, and the operating system. This flash chip is nowhere near the size flash chips uses on older Internet Tablet hardware. There is a 32GB eMMC flash device which is partitions into /opt and MyDocs. /opt is where applications and app data should be installed on the N900. And MyDocs partiion is 25 GBs of storage that also shows up as USB Mass Storage.
Now why does this matter? Because /opt is not the usual base location that Linux software is installed. Applications that have not been opt'ified will be installed on that small flash chip with the Operating System. That is bad. Why? Because of the OS storage fills up, the N900 will stop malfunctioning. And it won't boot either. If the N900 can't boot, it can't recharge the battery. And the N900 won't operate w/o a charged batter. So in essence, the N900 would be bricked. (Recoverable, but now w/o an extra charged battery or an external batter charger. Something that most users won't have).
Why am I telling you all of this? Because most (or all) of the softare in Extras Testing or Extras Development has not been opt'ified. That is configured to install into /opt instead of the OS flash storage. Meaning you could render your N900 inoperable by just installing too much of the wrong software.
Software will be becoming, but it will take some time. Not all of the developers have N900s yet. The development environment will only go far. One needs a N900 to really give software a very through trying. I'm sorry if this sounds condescending, or I'm talking over your head. It's not my aim to do either.
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2009-11-29
, 03:57
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Posts: 176 |
Thanked: 38 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ USA
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#70
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Originally Posted by sljonson
well put. this post is the sauce. noobs, stop being butthurt asshats when you arent spoonfed. the end.
Maemojedi, let me give a very technical explaination of why people are telling new users to avoid Extras Testing and Extras Development. On previous hard versions, flash storage was just 1 device. It was divided into seperate sections: bootloader, kernel, boot image. Those were very small in relation to the entire flash storage. The rest of the flash storage was devoted to the internal storage. The Operating system, applications, application data and user data where stored in this large areas.
The N900 uses a new flash storage technology. There are two flash storage "chips" (I use the term very loosely). There is a smaller flash storage chip that holds the bootloader, Linux kernel, bootimage, and the operating system. This flash chip is nowhere near the size flash chips uses on older Internet Tablet hardware. There is a 32GB eMMC flash device which is partitions into /opt and MyDocs. /opt is where applications and app data should be installed on the N900. And MyDocs partiion is 25 GBs of storage that also shows up as USB Mass Storage.
Now why does this matter? Because /opt is not the usual base location that Linux software is installed. Applications that have not been opt'ified will be installed on that small flash chip with the Operating System. That is bad. Why? Because of the OS storage fills up, the N900 will stop malfunctioning. And it won't boot either. If the N900 can't boot, it can't recharge the battery. And the N900 won't operate w/o a charged batter. So in essence, the N900 would be bricked. (Recoverable, but now w/o an extra charged battery or an external batter charger. Something that most users won't have).
Why am I telling you all of this? Because most (or all) of the softare in Extras Testing or Extras Development has not been opt'ified. That is configured to install into /opt instead of the OS flash storage. Meaning you could render your N900 inoperable by just installing too much of the wrong software.
Software will be becoming, but it will take some time. Not all of the developers have N900s yet. The development environment will only go far. One needs a N900 to really give software a very through trying. I'm sorry if this sounds condescending, or I'm
talking over your head. It's not my aim to do either.
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If you*, as a member here on the forums, act decently, try searching for an answer even just a minute or two before asking your question and enjoy participating here, you will almost always get good answers from community members.
If you instead decide to be snotty in your posts (and despite maemojedi's claims, he was in my opinion), stomp your feet when you don't get the answers you want and start completely making things up and putting them in other people's mouths, you're generally not going to have a great experience here - just like anywhere else, online or in the real world. It's just common sense.
So, you have a choice here. You either continue acting the way you have been and annoying the members of the community that would otherwise be happy to help you, or you can turn down the bile in your words and get on with getting the most out of your device with our help.
The choice is yours.
* "you" is being used here to mean anyone, not chris in particular.
Last edited by zerojay; 2009-11-29 at 01:54.