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pichlo's Avatar
Posts: 5,654 | Thanked: 17,630 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#71
Originally Posted by taixzo View Post
In some interchanges, particularly cloverleafs where exits may be spaced very closely together, speaking the actual exit to take is very useful.
Fair enough. There are situations calling for complex maneuvres ("take the exit, then turn right"). I would err on the side of brevity. When in doubt, a quick glance at the screen should clarify.

But there is no pleasing everyone. I found it irritating when my (commercial) satnav gave me three warnings before the maneuvre. My other half complained about the exact opposite, one warning is not enough
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Last edited by pichlo; 2018-04-05 at 14:45.
 

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#72
I'm with you on that, those that talk to much are annoying and sometimes too confusing. Google maps is perfect example of that.
"Take exit 4 on the left toward A404 etc"
Take exit 4 is enough.
On the left really makes no sense to be there at all since all exits are on the left.
 

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#73
Originally Posted by Watchmaker View Post
...
To further comment on the search string formatting discussion, here in Italy addresses are usually formatted like this:

Street name, civic number, city

Which is different from the suggested

civic number, street name, city

I have no idea how this should be implemented, but I think each country's "standard" address formatting method should be taken into account somehow.
libpostal (used by geocoder-nlp in OSM Scout Server) is expected to parse addresses in your natural way (Street name, civic number, city). The second option is a workaround.

Please add an issue at for your search troubles when using OSM Scout Server at https://github.com/rinigus/geocoder-nlp/issues . When filing an issue, please provide example search string, screenshot from OSM Scout Server on how it parsed it (switch on full logging for that in Settings), and expected result.

I'll be working on updating libpostal in near future and then I can look into it.


PS: @pichlo's analysis does warrant longer reply, at least I would like to outline my POV on the issues. it would just take some time to get to it.
 

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#74
Originally Posted by kinggo View Post
I'm with you on that, those that talk to much are annoying and sometimes too confusing. Google maps is perfect example of that.
"Take exit 4 on the left toward A404 etc"
Take exit 4 is enough.
On the left really makes no sense to be there at all since all exits are on the left.
I suppose the best option, if possible, would be to make this a configurable option in settings ("verbosity level"?)
 

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#75
Thanks pichlo for the detailed feedback.

Many of the things discussed relate to OSM Scout or online APIs, which from my point of view just are how they are, and some nice to have details, I'll just pick a couple things to reply to.

Speed limits
This has come up before and my opinion remains that I don't want to show unreliable data, in particular showing a higher speed limit than actual. The bar on that data is high. At least OpenStreetMap speed limit data is not good enough.

Back on the topic of things on the screen, I have noit figured out what the number under the current speed is supposed to represent. At first I thought it was the elevation, but that seems unlikely, given it shows figures like 3.3 yd.
That's the positioning accuracy. Maybe I could try adding a diameter symbol "⌀" there? I know many map apps render a circle around the position icon and that would be possible now with Mapbox GL, but I don't like covering the map with such pulsating junk, it makes looking at maps indoors unpleasant.

I said earlier that the animations are smooth and so they are, but the little symbol that shows your position keeps jumping forward and back. It looks like it is moving along the map and when too far, then the whole map including the symbol is jerked back. It is not too distracting but noticeable.
It should be recentering at same frequency as GPS sends positioning data, and for me it has seemed smooth, but might vary by device? It is technically though as you describe, I'll check if some reordering or animation skipping could make it effectively so that the position icons stays put and the map moves.

Please consider a wider range of map scale in Preferences. 0.5 to 2.0 seems more logical than 0.5 to 1.5.
Ah, OK, yes, will consider. It was meant for finetuning in case the DPI detection is a bit off, but maybe if you look at the screen from afar, you'll need a bit more and that should be doable.
 

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#76
I have shuffled replies in accordance to the part which they correspond to. There is a mix of issues / improvements in terms of which software they are expected to go to. So, I collected them accordingly. Sorry for long reply, but you raised many interesting concerns.

Search enhancements

Postcodes, while we have now the database linking UK postcode to lat,lon, for search, I would have to relate it to object. I suspect that the expectation is to get also description of what you have behind that postcode. Bit tricky to do it correctly and I will have to think and see how others are doing it (libosmscout has some support for postcodes, I believe). Corresponding issue is https://github.com/rinigus/geocoder-nlp/issues/38 , feel free to chip in data/links/ideas.


WhoGo Maps "nice to have"

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
It would be nice to have an option to save a location as a POI. For example, when you are on holiday, saving the hotel as the base would be quite useful.
https://github.com/otsaloma/whogo-maps/issues/3

WhoGo Maps / Mapbox GL style for car navigation

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
  • I am not sure you could do anything about this, but I find the roads rendered too narrow. I can only expand them when zooming in, at the expense of, well, having to zoom in, i.e. losing the big picture. And even then they are waaaaay too narrow. I would like them at least twice as wide, if not four or even five times. They will not be to scale but that does not matter.
  • In fact, everything is far too small. I had the phone stuck with a sucker on the windscreen and could just about see the map and icon with the next manoeuvre and the distance, but not much else. The current speed, for example, is microscopic, totally unreadable at a distance between the driver's seat and the windscreen.
  • Talking about the current speed, the speed limit info would be a welcome addition.
I would like to see enhancements in WhoGo Maps for car navigation as well. There are several aspects that would have to be addressed.

The road size and text will have to be changed in corresponding Mapbox GL map style. The corresponding project for OSM Scout Server maps is https://github.com/rinigus/mapbox-gl-styles [issue https://github.com/rinigus/mapbox-gl-styles/issues/10]. Specific ideas, such as style changes, which POIs have to be emphasized (gas stations and such) are welcome. There is similar issue for bicycle-oriented style. For Cartago online, @otsaloma maintains it at https://github.com/otsaloma/cartago-styles. Styles need work, but also ideas on how / what to change.

In WhoGo Maps, you choose the style via Maps. If we get many specific case oriented styles, maybe we should organize them as a family. So, you could choose Cartago English, for example, and the specific style will be selected in accordance with the map application current task (general viewing, driving, ...).

In addition to map style, I think we need, at least for driving, driving-oriented controls arrangement. I would like to see current speed, speed limit (if available) and such. At some point, @otsaloma was opposed to idea of turning Poor Maps into large speedometer. Maybe we can convince him that its a good idea to have driving-oriented mode. One way of doing it, is to implement and test the code and ask for inclusion via PR. For code writing, would be good to have an idea on how to arrange the controls (portrait and landscape modes separate) and what to display, how to show roundabouts and so on. So, for active users, I suggest start making mock-ups, let's discuss and agree on them. After that, code writing is considerably easier.

When we talk about available data, please see the list under "trace_attributes" in https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla...i-reference.md . Most probably, while I haven't tested it yet, we have access to all that already on our devices via Valhalla wrapped in OSM Scout Server Router module.

I encourage those who use WhoGo for driving to think and figure out the interface (what to keep, what to add, how to shuffle).

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
This may be too much to ask, but speed camera locations would be nice too
It can bring us into trouble with the law in several countries, if I understand correctly. I am not planning to implement it.

Voice and shown instructions

Instructions come from Valhalla: https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla . Valhalla was developed by Mapzen and now, after Mapzen shutdown, the team moved to Mapbox. Its actively developed project and, in the cases that seem odd, you should start filing issues there.

In the case of instructions, WhoGo/Poor Maps is a messenger. So, we don't have an option to make it less or more verbose. This has to be done on Valhalla's side. As for British units, see https://github.com/valhalla/valhalla/issues/874

In the cases with misleading instructions, check how the data is represented at OpenStreetMap. What confuses Valhalla is the change in the name of the street that it immediately tries to convey. But it can be discussed with Valhalla team by filing issue there.


TTS

The default English voice is from mimic and is American. There is rather small choice of TTS solutions in Linux (open-source). I raised the concerns regarding it when I was packaging TTS engines for SFOS while working on voice instructions for Poor Maps. Corresponding post was done at TJC with the hope of official response, didn't get any: https://together.jolla.com/question/...post-id-165969


Sorry for long reply.
 

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#77
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
The way the thing pronounces "roundabout" is quite funny too.
Silence!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ljFfL-mL70
 

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#78
Originally Posted by kinggo View Post
...
"Take exit 4 on the left toward A404 etc"
Take exit 4 is enough.
On the left really makes no sense to be there at all since all exits are on the left.
So let me say: here all exits are on the right

But have have hou ever traveled from Aachen/Germanyto Paris/France via Belgium? There is one 'exit' where.you really 'leave' the current motorway to the left.

But yeah in general you are right.
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#79
First of all, as said before, your contribution has been very welcome, filling a gap in the sailfish offer, at a level I wouldn't have thought possible for a two mens project (otsaloma and rinigus, or I am missing someone else ? MartinK maybe ?). Thanks !

Now for the constructive comments:
Originally Posted by otsaloma View Post
That's the positioning accuracy. Maybe I could try adding a diameter symbol "⌀" there? I know many map apps render a circle around the position icon and that would be possible now with Mapbox GL, but I don't like covering the map with such pulsating junk, it makes looking at maps indoors unpleasant.
There are several use-cases of the application which could need different information. A "one size fits all" maps may not be the best solution for this, and I have seen several gps system having a dedicated "drive" view.
On Here Maps for symbian for example, they even made it two separate applications (maps and navigation), but I obviously wouldn't recommend that solution.

Anyway, I can see the following usages:
  • "I'm lost" : need maps of surroundings, maybe nearby POI (looking for a pub to buy you a beer for example ). Scale of the map and GPS accuracy are key data here.
  • "Looking for some place elsewhere" : kind of the same usage than above, but GPS fix doesn't matter, it could has well be off.
  • "Planning a trip" : Must be able to see the full route and be able to zoom on specific parts. If the routing engine can provide several paths, be able to show them and select one
  • "Driving" : Attention must be focused on the road, so that the data shown must be easy to read at a glance. For example, showing accuracy doesn't matter much in that case, GPS either has a fix or doesn't, if accuracy is too large to place you on the good road, then you wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Scale also is not needed, it is always the same and what you expect while driving. What I found as main information provided by usual navigation systems are, except the map itself, current speed, next action (big icons like today are great for that!), distance to next action, remaining time to destination, remaining distance to destination, estimated hour of arrival. HereMaps for Symbian allowed to choose one of those last three as showing all would be two much. Details of the next action like its road name are usually not easy to spot while driving, but in some case like big city directions on highway does help, not sure how to handle those...
  • "Walking" : there may be different information needed compared to driving, and you may have a bit more attention to the screen than when in a car

There is not a need of one view for each of those use cases, but the driving one seems different enough to justify its own. For example, fitting to Sailfish design guideline when driving shouldn't be a requirement as having a nice high contrast black on white display of the remaining time would be a lot easier to spot quickly.

The difference between my N8 with its good AMOLED screen and black/white theme with big fat text on HereMap and my Jolla1 with its less clear screen (to be fair, I hadn't pushed up the luminosity in my tests...) with sailfish themed smaller text helps reducing the time needed to check the directions, which is important when driving to keep eyes on the road.

As it seems to be only QML to change for this, and only changes on a cosmetic level, as all is already there, I will try to tinker it a bit and come back with a proposition of what I could see as a dedicated driving view. I'll let you know if I come up with something that could be good enough to be discussed here and see others thoughts on this.


Once again, I really like what you have done !
 

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#80
Originally Posted by peterleinchen View Post
So let me say: here all exits are on the right

But have have hou ever traveled from Aachen/Germanyto Paris/France via Belgium? There is one 'exit' where.you really 'leave' the current motorway to the left.

But yeah in general you are right.
Here in the US, most exits are on the right, but maybe one in twenty or so is a left exit. For those, it is really useful to know which side of the road to start heading towards before you get there.
 

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