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ZShakespeare |
2010-05-06
, 23:02
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Banned |
Posts: 206 |
Thanked: 118 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Vancouver
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#21
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Originally Posted by AlMehdi
I'm glad that your father is an exception. He's lucky to have managed to avoid all the known issues that come with every new Ubuntu release that make the system uninstallable or otherwise unusable.
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2010-05-06
, 23:15
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Posts: 73 |
Thanked: 11 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ uk
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#22
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Originally Posted by AlMehdi
Bespoke software yes, but most is purchased. Which leads back to requirements and support conditions.
This is not entirely true.. Most big businesses develop their own programs so here it would not be a problem. The nasdaq stock exchange moved to linux because of it's stability and so are other businesses.
Small companies will take longer but they will get there too. Too much money to save here. I know a couple of companies who are opting for it but haven't decided yet. Next time they need to upgrade.
You do raise a valid point about iteration frequency of upgrades and the choices businesses need to make when it comes around again. Can Microsoft update their windows line to fix the last crap chuned out (im looking at you vista and the polished 7) in time to raise enough hope to sway away from the shift to linux to meet support conditions and exisiting licenses? As no business updates all its software in a go....purchased or other wise.
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2010-05-06
, 23:29
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Posts: 1,296 |
Thanked: 1,773 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Budapest, Hungary
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#23
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Originally Posted by roundyz
This is not true.
People who program for operating systems including Microsoft use c and c++. Its the right speed for the job. And at OS level you see no .net crap. Thats ms not eating thier own dog food.
Yes, you can use C/C++ and VS still supports it. .NET is not crap. After JITting it, it is ofter faster that native code. (of course only if it is done well)
And while native code is very good for system programming, managed code is way better for 3rd party apps.
Originally Posted by roundyz
I haven't yet tried Java, so I won't prejudice it.
However Java has other merits and shouldn't be tared with the same brush, they are both languages normally used for business apps.
But I heard several Java developers' complaints about it.
Originally Posted by roundyz
Visual Studio 2010 for server and client side coding, Firefox+Firebug for client-side debugging, and Superpreview for debugging IE6's crappy behavior.
What would you consider top of the line development environments? Mine is vim, web browser, compiler and a build tool:make or ant.
And about the productivity of the ".net crap":
VS offers a very nice code completion feature which I haven't seen (or not as sophisticated) in any other environments.
The other is C#'s elegance and behavior.
Look at its various features, eg. LINQ, lambda expressions, the event model, and more stuff.
For example, when I develop my little app for Maemo (with Qt and C++), I very often need to search through various collections for an item with an ID. With C++, I have to enumerate all the items and stuff, with C#, a single line can do it for me.
And .NET can really handle exceptions and give meaningful error messages, while with Qt my app simply crashes without a message if something goes wrong (even if I wrap it in a try-catch block). Only in debug mode does it say something like "SEGFAULT".
I really don't want to offend you or any people using different environments. I also don't want to flame on other environments, becuse what I don't know of, I don't form an opinion about.
But really, I beg for someone making Mono available for the N900.
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Last edited by Venemo; 2010-05-06 at 23:38.
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2010-05-06
, 23:46
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Posts: 73 |
Thanked: 11 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ uk
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#24
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Originally Posted by Venemo
Soooo, do you program .net outside of vs??? Loads and loads of intergrate dev environments have code completion. If your debugger just says 'segfault' i recommend a different one. And as a programmer you handle what to do when an error is thrown, not the language; this includes error messages.
This is not true.
Yes, you can use C/C++ and VS still supports it. .NET is not crap. After JITting it, it is ofter faster that native code. (of course only if it is done well)
And while native code is very good for system programming, managed code is way better for 3rd party apps.
I haven't yet tried Java, so I won't prejudice it.
But I heard several Java developers' complaints about it.
Visual Studio 2010 for server and client side coding, Firefox+Firebug for client-side debugging, and Superpreview for debugging IE6's crappy behavior.
And about the productivity of the ".net crap":
VS offers a very nice code completion feature which I haven't seen (or not as sophisticated) in any other environments.
The other is C#'s elegance and behavior.
Look at its various features, eg. LINQ, lambda expressions, the event model, and more stuff.
For example, when I develop my little app for Maemo (with Qt and C++), I very often need to search through various collections. With C++, I have to enumerate all the items and stuff, with C#, a single line can do it for me.
And .NET can really handle exceptions and give meaningful error messages, while with Qt my app simply crashes without a message if something goes wrong (even if I wrap it in a try-catch block). Only in debug mode does it say something like "SEGFAULT".
I really don't want to offend you or any people using different environments. I also don't want to flame on other environments, becuse what I don't know of, I don't form an opinion about.
But really, I beg for someone making Mono available for the N900.
Hope this dosn't offend....And I am trolling a bit but .net is crap..
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2010-05-06
, 23:55
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Posts: 1,296 |
Thanked: 1,773 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Budapest, Hungary
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#25
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Originally Posted by roundyz
Why would I?
Soooo, do you program .net outside of vs???
But I could if I wanted to. There is MonoDevelop, SharpDevelop, and more stuff.
Originally Posted by roundyz
Do you know any besides Qt Creator with which I can develop for the N900 with Qt?
If your debugger just says 'segfault' i recommend a different one.
Originally Posted by roundyz
You misunderstand. I don't talk about custom error handling, I'm talking about debugging. (BTW, I agree with you on what you wrote there.)
And as a programmer you handle what to do when an error is thrown, not the language; this includes error messages.
If an exception is thrown during debug, the environment should tell the developer what the problem is.
Originally Posted by roundyz
Sure! Thanks for your professional opinion, sir!
.And I am trolling a bit but .net is crap..
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2010-05-07
, 00:23
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#26
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I think this has always been a yearly statement for the past 10 years.
"This year will be the 'desktop linux' year".
Right.
I think the current systems are already interwoven quite tightly into 'us'. Commercially, politically, culturally, etc. It'll take awhile to undo it all.
"This year will be the 'desktop linux' year".
Right.
I think the current systems are already interwoven quite tightly into 'us'. Commercially, politically, culturally, etc. It'll take awhile to undo it all.
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2010-05-07
, 00:52
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Posts: 609 |
Thanked: 243 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Eastern USA
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#27
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Hmm. Two people have said that Linux will decline and die out.
That's the irony of it. Linux distributions are perfect for "clueless" users if set up right, but to set it up right, you need someone who isn't clueless. A little less than the opposite, in fact.
Originally Posted by ZShakespeare
Like many mid-20th century parents, they simply use the web browser and basic office suite. They aren't likely to do something unstable, and (if my assumptions are correct,) even if they encounter an error, they're likely just to hit the 'X' or 'OK' and move on, not thinking anything of it.I'm glad that your father is an exception. He's lucky to have managed to avoid all the known issues that come with every new Ubuntu release that make the system uninstallable or otherwise unusable.
That's the irony of it. Linux distributions are perfect for "clueless" users if set up right, but to set it up right, you need someone who isn't clueless. A little less than the opposite, in fact.
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==In school once again. Free time limited to night, holidays and weekends.==
Hi! I'm Andy, a Maemo Greeter!
I'm also a moderator of the Applications, Nokia N900, and Maemo 5/Fremantle forums.
Useful Links: Maemo Wiki Main Page, New users start here, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Also, pin yourself in the map! Maemo Map. Send me a PM (Private Message) if I leave you hanging on a problem (or if you need more help).
Owner of both a N800 and N900; Active community member since Jan 2010. You've been xommified! - My blog.
==In school once again. Free time limited to night, holidays and weekends.==
Hi! I'm Andy, a Maemo Greeter!
I'm also a moderator of the Applications, Nokia N900, and Maemo 5/Fremantle forums. Useful Links: Maemo Wiki Main Page, New users start here, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Also, pin yourself in the map! Maemo Map. Send me a PM (Private Message) if I leave you hanging on a problem (or if you need more help).
Owner of both a N800 and N900; Active community member since Jan 2010. You've been xommified! - My blog.
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2010-05-07
, 01:12
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Posts: 249 |
Thanked: 167 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ International
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#28
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Originally Posted by xomm
True in my case, I was running kubuntu but after struggling too long to set up the wireless, games, WINE and such i downgraded to W7. Will i go back, yes and right now i am looking at trying out PC-BSD, i just think that with all the various distros, the learning curve is very steep for us non tech types. If, and i know that puritan linux users will scream in horror, the ease of use for the average pc user was made a lot simplier - such as windows or mac OS - then the acceptance of linux will move from the 'geek' realm into the mainstream.
Like many mid-20th century parents, they simply use the web browser and basic office suite. They aren't likely to do something unstable, and (if my assumptions are correct,) even if they encounter an error, they're likely just to hit the 'X' or 'OK' and move on, not thinking anything of it.
That's the irony of it. Linux distributions are perfect for "clueless" users if set up right, but to set it up right, you need someone who isn't clueless. A little less than the opposite, in fact.
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How to ask questions the smart way
He who smiles in a crisis has found someone to blame.
Shirts get dirty. Underwear gets dirty. Pants? Pants never get dirty, and you can wear them forever.
My Favourite posts!
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=539
http://forums.precentral.net/2674180-post149.html
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=500
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63720
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2010-05-07
, 01:21
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Posts: 362 |
Thanked: 113 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#29
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i tried running linux several times in the past 5 years.. but failed each time..
yeah maybe i'm too much used to windows, but windows already has all my needs..
After installing linux, each time I feel I am just going backwards again to command line days... Its not user friendly at all to me - I know, i will install it again, then uninstall..
thats y i think its just going to be there, among the minority, who like to fiddle with the terminal and all that.. who knows, maybe my opinion will change in the coming years, but seeing how it is now, looks like going backwards in technology
yeah maybe i'm too much used to windows, but windows already has all my needs..
After installing linux, each time I feel I am just going backwards again to command line days... Its not user friendly at all to me - I know, i will install it again, then uninstall..
thats y i think its just going to be there, among the minority, who like to fiddle with the terminal and all that.. who knows, maybe my opinion will change in the coming years, but seeing how it is now, looks like going backwards in technology
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2010-05-07
, 03:23
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#30
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Originally Posted by UNderworld
This kind of statement always makes me laugh. It's like when people tell me "Vista came out with 3D desktop and everyone copied!"
who knows, maybe my opinion will change in the coming years, but seeing how it is now, looks like going backwards in technology
...No, sorry. Linux has had 3D desktops for years before Vista.
Typically speaking: Linux had the technology first. Windows (and now Mac) - are just blasting it in front of you like a Bugle. (And, granted, usually make it prettier for you)
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