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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (6)
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Full linux distros on Sailfish OS (253)
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2010-03-29
, 23:21
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Posts: 1,217 |
Thanked: 446 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Bedfordshire, UK
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#42
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Originally Posted by qwazix
Totally agree, digital compass would have been great!
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That stated, I wonder why the lack of a digital compass then. I feel it is much more 'neat' than a crippled IR port (and on the wrong side of the device)
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2010-03-29
, 23:30
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Posts: 95 |
Thanked: 26 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ UK
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#43
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I have a windows media center IR reciever on my PC, can it be used to record the IR commands from my remotes? Anyone know if theres an easy way to do it and get them into QTirreco
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2010-03-30
, 13:09
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Posts: 271 |
Thanked: 124 times |
Joined on May 2006
@ Aperture Science, Inc.
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#44
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Originally Posted by ~phoenix~
this is not my point.... why they are building things only half into the n900??
when i say to my plumber i want a second sink in my bathroom...
then he installs a sink.... but when i try to wash my hands and there is no water... and i call him and ask him why there is no water... what would he say??
an ordinary plumber would say he comes the next day and will check what is wrong...
and a nokia plumber would say "that sink does not support water"
for what is the ir port good when it is not working??
just for the devs??
what will be the next step? a phone/tablet with gsm chip but no ability to call someone?? like when you can code a phone app you can call someone??
or a phone/tablet without os??
customer: hy i just bought my nokia N12000 an it showes me only a nokia logo and then it turns off...
nsc: have you already coded an os and flashed it into the device??
i love nokia... but why they dont finish their work??
half work is always crappy.... and like you sayed .... its an old technologie.... it wouldnt be such a problem to add the input ability...
greetz
Can't you people stop complaining and whining even once??
I am not aware of ANY phone in the price range of the n900 that has this feature integrated. And guess what? Looks like it's of SOME use to certain people, otherwise why are there at least 3 different aftermarket CIR dongles for the iphone?
You can do a TON of stuff with the CIR transmitter if you'd just do some research. Besides controlling virtually all of your home equipment with it (except for radio-controlled wallsockets), you can use it to control toys, robots, toy-robots, DSLR cameras, surveillance cams, whatever.
How to learn new IR commands? Get an IR receiver for your computer (less than 5 bucks). Get Girder 3 (should still be available for free). Install igor plugin. read out IR codes. Also, bacon and profit.
EVERY other phone company would just have ignored any unused I/O pins of their hardware. The NIT dev team filled the space with something that doesn't give you ANY disadvantage, but can be really, really useful for some people. How can anyone complain about that?
And no, you'd never have used an IrDA port. No way in hell would you have used it to transfer anything from your ages old phone.
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2010-03-30
, 15:00
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#45
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Originally Posted by quingu
Fine, cause I know gazillions of _cheaper_ phones that have the feature integrated. IrDA, and more CIR range.
I am not aware of ANY phone in the price range of the n900 that has this feature integrated.
Originally Posted by quingu
... with ALL of them having a receiver (advertised as "learning capabilities").
Looks like it's of SOME use to certain people, otherwise why are there at least 3 different aftermarket CIR dongles for the iphone?
Originally Posted by quingu
Oh, I'm sure. I could do quite a TON MORE stuff with an extra CIR receiver too (because _all_ those use cases directly benefit from the receiver, if anything because you no longer need a desktop), and I think I have enough reason to be confused why such a receiver was not in the design when I'm pretty sure that the entire pack was _way_ cheaper than drilling the hole in the case for the IR window.
You can do a TON of stuff with the CIR transmitter if you'd just do some research. Besides controlling virtually all of your home equipment with it (except for radio-controlled wallsockets), you can use it to control toys, robots, toy-robots, DSLR cameras, surveillance cams, whatever.
Originally Posted by quingu
DIY! OMG. So in order to make any use of the CIR I should buy a diode and build my own receiver? How completely useless -- If I were to EVER build my own IR receiver I would also build my own IR emitter and connect _BOTH_ to the earphone+mic plug. IN FACT I can buy the later (no DIY), so I'd end up with two perfectly working emitters! What's the use case for the N900 builtin one again?
How to learn new IR commands? Get an IR receiver for your computer
Originally Posted by quingu
Nokia is different! Nokia connected a emitter to some GPIO / PWM pin and left the unused IrDA/CIR pins of the OMAP3 unconnected. Clearly a competitive advantage.
EVERY other phone company would just have ignored any unused I/O pins of their hardware.
Originally Posted by quingu
Again, my gripe is that they MADE the damn IR window in the case but failed to put a receiver, thus doing what I believe is the costly part then left the cheap part out, slashing the usefulness of the _expensive_ IR window to less than a quarter of its original use cases. Why?
The NIT dev team filled the space with something that doesn't give you ANY disadvantage, but can be really, really useful for some people. How can anyone complain about that?
Originally Posted by quingu
Ages old phone, ages old computer, ages old PDA... By now I would have used a receiver more times than the builtin GPS. Of course, I know the rest of the world doesn't share my PoV -- thus the reason I wouldn't have say a word if the thing were to come without any kind of IR capability (no NIT has had one either..).
And no, you'd never have used an IrDA port. No way in hell would you have used it to transfer anything from your ages old phone.
But... this.... nice... completely useless though... IR hole...
*ignores feelings of Dčjá vu* (N8x0 mbx)
Last edited by javispedro; 2010-03-30 at 15:03.
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2010-03-30
, 15:31
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Posts: 540 |
Thanked: 288 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#46
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Originally Posted by zimon
And the serial port profile would not suffice ?
I don't get it, why even nowadays TV/DVB/Hifi-home entertainment device manufacturers do not put Bluetooth into their devices but still use only IR.
Maybe the reason is that Bluetooth SIG haven't created a stardard for remote control of entertainment devices. Would love to have a standard and BT chips in about everything!
The IR codes on remotes are not standard either (the carrier frequency is usually the same only because it's cheaper to use the transmitter/receiver HW when it's made by tens of milloins rather then hundresd of thousands)
I guess BT is just too expensive (and power hungry if you keep it connected all the time and opening the connection takes few hundred ms which would kinda suck as latency, though it could be mitigated [motion sensor to open connection when you pick up the remote...]), I mean the IR units must cost eurocents in these quantities, BT units cost euros...
Now zigbee already has taken this into account and is much simpler and lower power system (has other drawbacks though), not that they offer any standardized protocol above the serial layer, but it does not matter since it's easy to sniff and reverse engineer the protocol anyway.
As for finding out the codes, be a real geek and get bus-pirate, great for plenty of HW-hacking projects and the minimal logc analyzer mode can be used to sniff the IR protocol right off the led connectors...
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2010-03-30
, 17:22
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Posts: 271 |
Thanked: 124 times |
Joined on May 2006
@ Aperture Science, Inc.
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#47
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Originally Posted by javispedro
easy, mate...
Fine, cause I know gazillions of _cheaper_ phones that have the feature integrated. IrDA, and more CIR range.
... with ALL of them having a receiver (advertised as "learning capabilities").
Oh, I'm sure. I could do quite a TON MORE stuff with an extra CIR receiver too (because _all_ those use cases directly benefit from the receiver, if anything because you no longer need a desktop), and I think I have enough reason to be confused why such a receiver was not in the design when I'm pretty sure that the entire pack was _way_ cheaper than drilling the hole in the case for the IR window.
DIY! OMG. So in order to make any use of the CIR I should buy a diode and build my own receiver? How completely useless -- If I were to EVER build my own IR receiver I would also build my own IR emitter and connect _BOTH_ to the earphone+mic plug. IN FACT I can buy the later (no DIY), so I'd end up with two perfectly working emitters! What's the use case for the N900 builtin one again?
Nokia is different! Nokia connected a emitter to some GPIO / PWM pin and left the unused IrDA/CIR pins of the OMAP3 unconnected. Clearly a competitive advantage.
Again, my gripe is that they MADE the damn IR window in the case but failed to put a receiver, thus doing what I believe is the costly part then left the cheap part out, slashing the usefulness of the _expensive_ IR window to less than a quarter of its original use cases. Why?
Ages old phone, ages old computer, ages old PDA... By now I would have used a receiver more times than the builtin GPS. Of course, I know the rest of the world doesn't share my PoV -- thus the reason I wouldn't have say a word if the thing were to come without any kind of IR capability (no NIT has had one either..).
But... this.... nice... completely useless though... IR hole...
*ignores feelings of Dčjá vu* (N8x0 mbx)
those receivers just go by the name of DIY, they are available assembled... 4,90 euro, like i said. i already own two of them, so i wont spend time to search a vendor for you. so what's your point? googling+ebaysearching for 5 minutes is too much of a hassle, so you keep bashing your 500 euro phone company?
Do a ton more stuff with a receiver? Wow. The only use case I can think of that isn't solvable without an external receiver would be using a generic tv remote to control your n900. something you could easily do with a bluetooth remote or whatever. nope, no ton of use cases... sorry.
your main point seems to be that you are ... special, and nokia doesn't fully "get" you, because the n900 doesn't fit your needs 100%. And yet, you obviously can't find a phone that better suits your needs.
If nokia would stick to your ravings and removed everything from the n900 that didn't work 100%, there would be no n900 at all. enjoy your super happy fantasy phone. i'll be enjoying my n900.
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2010-03-30
, 17:55
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#48
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Originally Posted by quingu
And how do you connect that one to the N900? Where's the RS232? At least the one I was talking about connects easily to the earphones+mic jack, and even comes with lirc+alsa drivers! Unfortunately, it has the side effect of making the N900 IR emitter useless and .. well, looks plain ugly. How easily could have it been hidden behind the nice but useless hole in the N900 case. Can't I dream?
those receivers just go by the name of DIY, they are available assembled... 4,90 euro, like i said. i already own two of them, so i wont spend time to search a vendor for you. so what's your point?
Originally Posted by quingu
So can you really do anything useful with the N900 IR emitter _without_ a desktop computer? That's the set of use cases I'm referring to. Want to learn a remote? Sorry, I have to boot up my desktop computer. That alone means 99% of possible users are not going to do it. See below.
Do a ton more stuff with a receiver? Wow. The only use case I can think of that isn't solvable without an external receiver would be using a generic tv remote to control your n900. something you could easily do with a bluetooth remote or whatever. nope, no ton of use cases... sorry.
Originally Posted by quingu
No. My main point is that putting a receiver would've been terribly cheap considering there's already a IR window in there. And knowing that the number of people who'd like a IR emitter alone is quite a few orders of magnitude below the number of people who'd like an IR emitter+receiver (as evidenced by yourself: there's three IR modules for the iPhone and all of them have a receiver), putting the IR emitter only has been a terrible decision.
your main point seems to be that you are ... special, and nokia doesn't fully "get" you, because the n900 doesn't fit your needs 100%. And yet, you obviously can't find a phone that better suits your needs.
UNLESS there's some proof that somehow it was impossible or expensive to put the receiver and connect both diodes to the OMAP3 pins dedicated to.. you guessed it, CIR and IrDA.
The current solution is a weird mess and I still wonder WHY.
Originally Posted by quingu
They do that all the time and there's still N900. Look, they're going to remove the resistive screen just because some guy can't handle the bit of pressure required.
If nokia would stick to your ravings and removed everything from the n900 that didn't work 100%, there would be no n900 at all.
But no, I don't want Nokia to do that. See my previous point.
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2010-03-30
, 20:41
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Posts: 271 |
Thanked: 124 times |
Joined on May 2006
@ Aperture Science, Inc.
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#49
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whatever. you're right.
nokia is the devil. curse them for giving us the best open linux handset.
nokia is the devil. curse them for giving us the best open linux handset.
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2010-03-30
, 23:27
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#50
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Originally Posted by quingu
Sigh. Yes, I definitely think Nokia is the devil. I hope I can give all those Nokians a good spanking some day, and also steal all the N900s in the world to crush them together then send them to the sun!
whatever. you're right.
nokia is the devil. curse them for giving us the best open linux handset.
/me wonders if my grammar is really so bad...
That stated, I wonder why the lack of a digital compass then. I feel it is much more 'neat' than a crippled IR port (and on the wrong side of the device)
EDIT: Now I remember, I did buy a phone with proprietary port, a samsung... anyway, it is still a reason for choosing a phone
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Last edited by qwazix; 2011-08-21 at 10:30.