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2013-12-28
, 15:27
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Posts: 3,404 |
Thanked: 4,474 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ Germany
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#172
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Originally Posted by javispedro
In the end it was kept for no apparent reason, right? The work on Aegis predates the Elop era, and that was a time where Nokia really cared about MeeGo. But the day the N9 was released, Aegis remained just an evil annoyance IMHO. Maybe it made some operators that sold the N9 happy. I don't know. It certainly didn't bring us more commercial software.
Nokia never care? Then I suppose Aegis was just purely for evil.
Originally Posted by javispedro
Sailfish as an OS has no DRM. Jolla as a Sailfish vendor may decide to "enhance" the product. If it means getting more commercial software, and more sales, it could actually be regarded as an enhancement by many.
And the fact that Sailfish has things like "No DRM" on their FAQ are outright lies because they will bend over the moment a carrier asks for a DRM protected 30-second ringtone.
Originally Posted by javispedro
The moment you want to sell (and have to sell) you have to follow the rules of the market. And they're mostly dictated by the operators and the content industry nowadays. IMHO Jolla tries to find a compromise that makes both, the operators and the tinkerers happy. Step by step. The last step was probably to please operators (and users by providing a way to recover a bricked device), the next step might be to please tinkerers.
And here I though it was Jolla's benefit that they wouldn't be forced to following all the enterprisey requirements that as a Nokia-sized behemoth they were forced to follow... was I wrong?
You cannot have it all at once, especially not with an update-early, update-often policy. It's the end result that counts.
__________________
Tidings - RSS and Podcast aggregator for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/tidings
Cargo Dock - file/cloud manager for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/cargodock
Tidings - RSS and Podcast aggregator for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/tidings
Cargo Dock - file/cloud manager for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/cargodock
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2013-12-28
, 15:29
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Posts: 479 |
Thanked: 1,284 times |
Joined on Jan 2012
@ Enschede, The Netherlands
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#173
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Originally Posted by djselbeck
Then I wonder... how do these devices get flashed the first time? Not by USB apparently, but by JTAG or something?
I highly doubt that.
I had a pc mainboard once, during the Pentium 60-days, which had a flashable BIOS, but which also had a 4K bootloader in mask ROM, e.g. indestructible. Even if you managed to mess up during flashing a new BIOS, like overwriting it with zeros, you could always restore it by diskette, thanks to that 4K bootloader.
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Fuzzillogic For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-12-28
, 15:32
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Posts: 113 |
Thanked: 303 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
@ Germany
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#174
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This would be cool and there are even today devices which have an read only bootloader. Ipod Classic for example has the DFU mode in ROM
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2013-12-28
, 15:32
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#175
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Originally Posted by Fuzzillogic
We grow them in vats from stemcells in a remote farm in Taiwan. Pictures are flashed into their front cameras that load the conciousness onto them.
Then I wonder... how do these devices get flashed the first time? Not by USB apparently, but by JTAG or something?
Seriously though: There's always ways to initialize a flash on a device, on N900/N9 it was called a cold flash from recollection.
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2013-12-28
, 15:37
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Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
Thanked: 4,464 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#176
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Originally Posted by Fuzzillogic
Totally agree, some whining is good, I'm guilty of that in spades, I just hope they've all got thick skin, as it could get demoralising at times.
We've seen people throwing fits, but after it was explained why Jolla did the things they did the mood cleared considerably. With this update, it seems like a repeat, only now we are much dependent on Jolla. Also, even if these issues don't affect me directly, I do feel the need to be vocal about them. If I let them pass as "I don't care", at some point things will get worse, because companies think nobody cares. And then we end up with an Apple-ified device, which is in my view the total surrendering of customers to the company. So, by being vocal now, I hope to protect my future interests, before it is too late. (see what I did there? I communicated in advance!
Speaking of apple... Aren't those newers iphones fully encrypted?...
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jalyst For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-12-28
, 15:54
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#177
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Originally Posted by Fuzzillogic
OMAP has a ROMBL, which is used in N[89]xx devices for coldflash: http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project. and my uneducated guess is that the SoC in Jolla is lacking a proper implementation or configuration of anything equivalent. So yep, it's probably JTAG (or UART) - or suffer and pay Jolla for recovering your device
Then I wonder... how do these devices get flashed the first time? Not by USB apparently, but by JTAG or something?
I had a pc mainboard once, during the Pentium 60-days, which had a flashable BIOS, but which also had a 4K bootloader in mask ROM, e.g. indestructible. Even if you managed to mess up during flashing a new BIOS, like overwriting it with zeros, you could always restore it by diskette, thanks to that 4K bootloader.
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-12-28 at 15:57.
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2013-12-28
, 15:57
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 1,832 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
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#178
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Well the N900 allowed that if I remember rightly, and I think that's the level of freedom and "safety" (in not breaking the device) people expect.
On 1.0.2.5:
[carsten@vostro-localdomain SailfishOS-1.0.2.5-sbj]$ sudo fastboot -i 0x2931 boot recovery.img
[sudo] password for carsten:
< waiting for device >
downloading 'boot.img'...
OKAY [ 0.592s]
booting...
FAILED (remote: access denied. need privilege!)
finished. total time: 0.595s
After factory reset on 1.0.2.5, returning to 1.0.0.5:
[carsten@vostro-localdomain SailfishOS-1.0.2.5-sbj]$ sudo fastboot -i 0x2931 boot recovery.img
[sudo] password for carsten:
downloading 'boot.img'...
OKAY [ 0.591s]
booting...
OKAY [ 0.003s]
finished. total time: 0.594s
Don't do that unless you want an expensive service repair. Power brings responsibility.
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2013-12-28
, 16:30
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#179
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So they want to sacrifice main contributors(pre-orders and future developers of native apps) and future customers as well for operators to sell a device?
Who they expect to buy a device and without community and tinkers how long it would take people to jump to next device, if there would be no freedom for them?
People still love N9 and harmattan(and i do) and it's hackable and there is still development, but you can't compare it to development we have for maemo. It's still there while HW is outdated with updates from community, updated kernels and so on.
My point that you can see that it's possible on any device even with aegis, but it takes more resources. Some people want to simply hack device and not crack/jailbreak it. That's why maemo development is still relevant even after a lot years, while harmattan is getting low to almost zero
So if they want to have those devices collecting dust at operators stores or people houses, good luck. They need to remember that as well for end user they want mostly to buy their devices, hw is less than middle, and for today's "just user" and android fan boys is what important...
Edit: typos from bb10 auto correct
Last edited by ZogG; 2013-12-28 at 16:39.
Who they expect to buy a device and without community and tinkers how long it would take people to jump to next device, if there would be no freedom for them?
People still love N9 and harmattan(and i do) and it's hackable and there is still development, but you can't compare it to development we have for maemo. It's still there while HW is outdated with updates from community, updated kernels and so on.
My point that you can see that it's possible on any device even with aegis, but it takes more resources. Some people want to simply hack device and not crack/jailbreak it. That's why maemo development is still relevant even after a lot years, while harmattan is getting low to almost zero
So if they want to have those devices collecting dust at operators stores or people houses, good luck. They need to remember that as well for end user they want mostly to buy their devices, hw is less than middle, and for today's "just user" and android fan boys is what important...
Edit: typos from bb10 auto correct
Last edited by ZogG; 2013-12-28 at 16:39.
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2013-12-28
, 16:42
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Posts: 25 |
Thanked: 99 times |
Joined on Apr 2013
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#180
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I am wondering what if newer devices are shipped with the latest firmware from the start? I guess they won't have the chance to go back to an older factory snapshot…? I think all the anger here just comes from the fact that it would have been nice to wait with locking the bootloader until an unlock process was actually in place.
Anyway, I am confident people at Jolla learned from all this. I hope there will be a different flash or partition for the modem bits so a factory image can be distributed for future devices.
Anyway, I am confident people at Jolla learned from all this. I hope there will be a different flash or partition for the modem bits so a factory image can be distributed for future devices.
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Raim For This Useful Post: | ||
[carsten@vostro-localdomain SailfishOS-1.0.2.5-sbj]$ sudo fastboot -i 0x2931 boot recovery.img
[sudo] password for carsten:
< waiting for device >
downloading 'boot.img'...
OKAY [ 0.592s]
booting...
FAILED (remote: access denied. need privilege!)
finished. total time: 0.595s
After factory reset on 1.0.2.5, returning to 1.0.0.5:
[carsten@vostro-localdomain SailfishOS-1.0.2.5-sbj]$ sudo fastboot -i 0x2931 boot recovery.img
[sudo] password for carsten:
downloading 'boot.img'...
OKAY [ 0.591s]
booting...
OKAY [ 0.003s]
finished. total time: 0.594s