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2011-06-04
, 12:34
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Posts: 5,795 |
Thanked: 3,151 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Agoura Hills Calif
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#102
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Originally Posted by ericsson
I think that perceptions have changed since Apple and Google transformed the mobile market. I think that Nokia and Microsoft are seen as just other competitors in a big marketplace. Computers, phones and tablets are just commodities, more like TVs than they once were. If I had to pick the one predominant TV maker, I wouldn't know who to pick.
Reality check. MS rules the PC world. We may dislike it as much as we want, they still rule. Nokia still rules the mobile market
People generally don't care what OS their phones are running, but they know that Nokia will be totally renewed very soon
In the US, I don't think Nokia rules anything.
If anyone "rules" the mobile market, I would say Apple does. Apple can change the course of history and has done so repeatedly. No other company is doing that, even that old tiger Microsoft has become just another aging, obese *****cat. Speculation is that Bill Gates is returning because it badly needs a brain transplant...
P.S. In honor of this site's censoring software, Here are the lyrics of a pop song that contains the word that I used above.
"What's New *****cat"
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
*****cat, *****cat
I've got flowers
And lots of hours
To spend with you.
So go and powder your cute little *****cat nose!
*****cat, *****cat
I love you
Yes, I do!
You and your *****cat nose!
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
*****cat, *****cat
You're so thrilling
And I'm so willing
To care for you.
So go and make up your cute little *****cat face!
*****cat, *****cat
I love you
Yes, I do!
You and your *****cat face!
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
What's new *****cat? Woah, Woah
*****cat, *****cat
You're delicious
And if my wishes
Can all come true
I'll soon be kissing your sweet little *****cat lips!
*****cat, *****cat
I love you
Yes, I do!
You and your *****cat lips!
You and your *****cat eyes!
You and your *****cat nose!
__________________
All I want is 40 acres, a mule, and Xterm.
All I want is 40 acres, a mule, and Xterm.
Last edited by geneven; 2011-06-04 at 20:29.
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2011-06-04
, 22:18
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Banned |
Posts: 974 |
Thanked: 622 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#103
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Originally Posted by geneven
You are right, but wrong. Mobile phones have been commodities for a long time already and Nokia have been the preferred brand (world wide) because of quality and value. Apple has in some ways taken over at the top, but in other ways Android devices have. Nokia doesn't offer the same value right now, but with MS they will. As I said earlier, a revolution is not needed, only something that is perceived as equal value as the others regarding HW, OS and ecosystem.
I think that perceptions have changed since Apple and Google transformed the mobile market. I think that Nokia and Microsoft are seen as just other competitors in a big marketplace. Computers, phones and tablets are just commodities, more like TVs than they once were. If I had to pick the one predominant TV maker, I wouldn't know who to pick.
In the US, I don't think Nokia rules anything.
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2011-06-05
, 00:06
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Posts: 49 |
Thanked: 39 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#104
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Aside from neglecting MeeGo, choosing WP7 and not Android, etc,
this seemingly reputable source claims that and explains why "Stephen Elop is deluded" (warning, monstrous blog entry). And also in another blog entry why Elop's February-anouncement (instead of e.g. Q4 2011) to drop Symbian cost Nokia >14 Billion USD.
Last edited by lohner; 2011-06-05 at 00:25.
this seemingly reputable source claims that and explains why "Stephen Elop is deluded" (warning, monstrous blog entry). And also in another blog entry why Elop's February-anouncement (instead of e.g. Q4 2011) to drop Symbian cost Nokia >14 Billion USD.
Last edited by lohner; 2011-06-05 at 00:25.
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2011-06-05
, 00:07
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Posts: 434 |
Thanked: 990 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Australia
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#105
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Originally Posted by ericsson
define "Apple has in some ways taken over at the top" please?
You are right, but wrong. Mobile phones have been commodities for a long time already and Nokia have been the preferred brand (world wide) because of quality and value. Apple has in some ways taken over at the top, but in other ways Android devices have. Nokia doesn't offer the same value right now, but with MS they will. As I said earlier, a revolution is not needed, only something that is perceived as equal value as the others regarding HW, OS and ecosystem.
Taken over what? they have done nothing more than prove that you can copy other manufacturers technology (from years ago) and convince people, through clever marketing, that it's "new".
the only thing apple has managed to do (and wit great success) is make a feature phone extremely usable, and thus, make people believe that it's "smart".
the assumption that because someone is a leader in the desktop market, they will by default be a leader in the mobile market , is a fallacy.
People lke to think that Apple is leader in the mobile world, even Elop does, but, while their prodicts in the desktop market are great, they don't have a massive market share.
And just because microsoft has market share in the Desktop world, means in no way that they will, by default, make in the mobile arena. They've been trying, and failing for 15 years.
__________________
Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
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2011-06-05
, 01:35
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Posts: 515 |
Thanked: 259 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#106
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Originally Posted by ericsson
If you're speaking about simple cellphones and not just smartphones, yes but for smartphones they are but a small fraction of the market.
You are right, but wrong. Mobile phones have been commodities for a long time already and Nokia have been the preferred brand (world wide) because of quality and value.
Apple has in some ways taken over at the top,
but in other ways Android devices have.
I believe Apple is also more profitable than Nokia in mobile phones, and as such is also more profitable than all Android phones combined.
It's not the definitive view of what makes a market leader but is important to understand where Nokia is relative to Apple. Nokia's relevance in the marketplace doesn't seem to be growing.
Nokia doesn't offer the same value right now, but with MS they will. As I said earlier, a revolution is not needed, only something that is perceived as equal value as the others regarding HW, OS and ecosystem.
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2011-06-05
, 01:50
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#107
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Originally Posted by ericsson
You know... I don't think it's no longer about the desktop. Mobile browsers outnumber desktops for the first time... and it's never going to switch back.
Reality check. MS rules the PC world.
So what Microsoft, Apple, Nokia and (to a lesser degree) The Linux Foundation are vying for is that our phones and our tablets to be how they serve up the internet and their services.
Nokia was already there before the others. They let Google, Apple and now Microsoft catch up when they could have been years ahead of them. But I'd have to say that Microsoft is now looking at how they will go from Windows 7 (desktop) to ARM based Windows 8 (tablet and non-legacy x86 OS) and incorporate your phone into the mix - WP7 (current) and the upcoming WP8.
That's where they've got their sights set. And honestly... that fight is just starting. With the recent Windows 8 on ARM and how non-legacy it's gonna be... I'm looking at how that the WP7 decision might not be as bad for the typical consumer that's been looking for a certain level of convergence.
It's the admins and gurus that are gravitating to MeeGo, that had gravitated to Maemo. There's no answer for us in these conversations that's longterm yet. Harmattan is short term, puts a shiny device in our pocket for a year. MeeGo is a longer term project that just doesn't seem to be ready.
And WP7, albeit a clean as hell UI and workflow, it's geared towards consumers that love FB, Twitter, and TXT messaging. Not for a guy that's gotta SSH into a server and has to edit some crontab or php.ini via Pico or Vi.
Let's see what happens. But the desktop is giving way to the mobile landscape quickly in my opinion.
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2011-06-05
, 02:19
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Posts: 515 |
Thanked: 259 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#108
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Originally Posted by lohner
I remember now why I stopped subscribing to his blog. He uses sheer volume to communicate his points and accuses of others interpreting facts based on what they want to see yet does the same himself.
Aside from neglecting MeeGo, choosing WP7 and not Android, etc,
this seemingly reputable source claims that and explains why "Stephen Elop is deluded" (warning, monstrous blog entry). And also in another blog entry why Elop's February-anouncement (instead of e.g. Q4 2011) to drop Symbian cost Nokia >14 Billion USD.
The US provides no leadership in smartphones? So who is, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea?
He talks about Japan leading the US, yet in Japan Google / iOS dominate 95% of the smartphone marketshare (57% and 38% respectively). I like that he conveniently throws mixes smartphone and cellphone data using which ever is most convenient to him and ignores facts inconvenient to his argument.
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2011-06-05
, 03:29
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Posts: 139 |
Thanked: 224 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ San Francisco, CA
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#109
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Originally Posted by geohsia
I'm not going into the merits of Ahonen's blog, and I admit that I do know little about the Japanese market. One thing I know is that they use a particular definition to describe "smart-phones" as opposed to "advanced function mobile phones".
I remember now why I stopped subscribing to his blog. He uses sheer volume to communicate his points and accuses of others interpreting facts based on what they want to see yet does the same himself.
The US provides no leadership in smartphones? So who is, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea?
He talks about Japan leading the US, yet in Japan Google / iOS dominate 95% of the smartphone marketshare (57% and 38% respectively). I like that he conveniently throws mixes smartphone and cellphone data using which ever is most convenient to him and ignores facts inconvenient to his argument.
The smart-phone category is comprised by their definition as "mobile devices running iOs, Android, MS Windows Phone, RIM's OS, and Symbian S60" (which is not offered in Japan). As are a few others (Bada, Maemo, WebOS). So, these are mainly imports (they start to release Japanese Android based phones in relevant numbers now).
Advanced function phones are mainly "Made in Japan" and not counted as smartphones.
I am not clear in which functions "advanced function phones" differ from smart phones, as all functions available on smart phones are seemingly present in these advanced function phones. Some functions that have been used in Japan for years are not currently present in the U.S. (emoney, virtual wallet) or have been introduced in Japan years earlier than to the rest of the world.
Understanding how smart phones are defined it is no wonder that iOs and Android make up more than 90% of the Japanese smart phone market.
Unit wise there were about 5 Million Android devices and more than 3 Million IOS devices sold in Japan in the latest fiscal year (12 months ending 3/31/2011), on average a little more than 2 million smart phones per quarter. That does not sound that much for a highly industrialized country like Japan with a population a little less than 130 million. There must be a huge number of advanced function phones be sold.
I'd appreciate if someone more knowledgeable can explain the distinction between smart phone and advanced function phone in Japan, or has numbers showing units sold of advanced function phones.
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2011-06-05
, 05:45
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#110
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Originally Posted by ericsson
And neither Nokia nor Microsoft are being preferred more and more every day--WORLDWIDE. The fact remains that they're BOTH falling behind. Now, they're just going to fall behind together.
You are right, but wrong. Mobile phones have been commodities for a long time already and Nokia have been the preferred brand (world wide) because of quality and value. Apple has in some ways taken over at the top, but in other ways Android devices have. Nokia doesn't offer the same value right now, but with MS they will. As I said earlier, a revolution is not needed, only something that is perceived as equal value as the others regarding HW, OS and ecosystem.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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| Tags |
| bada blows, buysomethinelse, good move, goodbye nokia, wp7 rocks |
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WP7 may not be a mobile OS marketshare leader but I would not count out the desktop OS marketshare leader. "IF" (and an big IF at that) they get their act together as they build out the consumer OS ecosystem, with Nokia's hardware they could be a strong player.
Look at what Apple has already talked about regarding Lion and what MS has been talking about WP8. The battle is much bigger than a few mobile phones as we enter a post-PC era.