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2010-01-13
, 01:39
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Posts: 4,556 |
Thanked: 1,624 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#82
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Originally Posted by aspidites
I agree, there should be some degree of protection. The problem with DRM is that it only takes one DRM-freed file to make DRM pointless. Not to mention it's just a hassle most of the time.
I suppose.
DRM has never stopped anyone from pirating anything, not for long anyways. If the post-install script only pointed to some remote authentication procedure, then modifying it wouldn't help the user much. Especially if the remote procedure is encrypted some how.
Anyways, we could go back and forth all day, someone undoubtedly responding with "encryption algorithm would get spoofed" or the like. My original point was that there are ways of providing some degree of protection for proprietary developers.
I wonder how Penumbra and friends are solving this "dilemma"
Another way (which won't apply for every program) is to have a server component. Don't make it required to connect to play because..
a) it'll be circumvented
b) it's annoying
But instead, make it so they have to have a valid install (maybe match a list of valid serials to Ovi or IMEI) to post high scores to server, or in the case of multiplayer gaming. To play online. Granted for those who don't care about these sort of things it isn't a deterrent. But you'll never get rid of all the pirates, it's pointless to try. The best way is to minimize the possibility and to increase reasons to buy.
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Originally Posted by ysss
They're maemo and MeeGo...
"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
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2010-01-13
, 01:44
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#83
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Originally Posted by aspidites
The only non-snake oil protection is the choice of a business model where you don't depend on a distribution (and thus protection) of a file/deb/app. Alternatively, educating/training users (instilling 'platform norms') can be helpful, but that's not really an option in our case.
spoofed" or the like. My original point was that there are ways of providing some degree of protection for proprietary developers.
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-01-13
, 01:59
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Posts: 40 |
Thanked: 18 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#84
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Well, since we're already so far off topic at this point would anyone mind if I made a suggestion?
There is no reason to pirate the game, it's great, it costs me slightly more than just a half pint of liquor (I simply need to find a credit card to charge it to) and really, love the game, it's great.
The only thing that concerns me is that from all the research I've done- It doesn't seem like the company has made any effort to sell a level editor for it? (Which I would pay 15-25$ for)
Does anyone know about the file-format? I'm not trying to cheat them. I'd buy the level editor if there was one (but then they probably wouldn't give the demo away as they do)
I don't know, love the game, but it seems very limited from the Linux community point of view, there's no where we can take it other than making our own level editor...
Has anyone else had this thought? Could they sell us some, "play whatever level you want license?" I don't really know but I love the software and will purchase it very soon, but I don't think it'll satisfy my hunger for entertainment,
At very worst, we could duplicate it for free, but I really don't want to do that. I'd rather they just sell us the ability to entertain ourselves infinitely.
There is no reason to pirate the game, it's great, it costs me slightly more than just a half pint of liquor (I simply need to find a credit card to charge it to) and really, love the game, it's great.
The only thing that concerns me is that from all the research I've done- It doesn't seem like the company has made any effort to sell a level editor for it? (Which I would pay 15-25$ for)
Does anyone know about the file-format? I'm not trying to cheat them. I'd buy the level editor if there was one (but then they probably wouldn't give the demo away as they do)
I don't know, love the game, but it seems very limited from the Linux community point of view, there's no where we can take it other than making our own level editor...
Has anyone else had this thought? Could they sell us some, "play whatever level you want license?" I don't really know but I love the software and will purchase it very soon, but I don't think it'll satisfy my hunger for entertainment,
At very worst, we could duplicate it for free, but I really don't want to do that. I'd rather they just sell us the ability to entertain ourselves infinitely.
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2010-01-13
, 02:42
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Posts: 173 |
Thanked: 160 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ London, UK
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#85
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I'm concerned that they quickly removed the .deb. surelythey realised this would happen? It can't be news to them. The deviced has no way to stop you copying files from the filesystem. Locking against IMEI will just be overridden with LD_PRELOAD=fake_imei.so ./game
The store purchase for the 90ish% of non-technical people who don't forums or know the cmdline and just want to pay for great software, should be adequate to make money from honesty and the vague security by obscurity.
The fact it was removed worries me that they didn't know! I'd hate to not have any commercial apps after this untl they tie some amazingly complex kernal blob which locks you with imei and a non LD overridable system call (or something like that).
On a different note charging $3 to americans but almost double that to brits (£3) is completely evil behaviour.
The store purchase for the 90ish% of non-technical people who don't forums or know the cmdline and just want to pay for great software, should be adequate to make money from honesty and the vague security by obscurity.
The fact it was removed worries me that they didn't know! I'd hate to not have any commercial apps after this untl they tie some amazingly complex kernal blob which locks you with imei and a non LD overridable system call (or something like that).
On a different note charging $3 to americans but almost double that to brits (£3) is completely evil behaviour.
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2010-01-13
, 02:51
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Posts: 4,556 |
Thanked: 1,624 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#86
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Originally Posted by damion
Ah, but your less likely to want to give away your IMEI. Namely because people can do bad things with IMEI, and in Europe, if somebody says that IMEI is stolen then the police along with telephone operators can track it down and get it back.
I Locking against IMEI will just be overridden with LD_PRELOAD=fake_imei.so ./game
The store purchase for the 90ish% of non-technical people who don't forums or know the cmdline and just want to pay for great software, should be adequate to make money from honesty and the vague security by obscurity.
The fact it was removed worries me that they didn't know! I'd hate to not have any commercial apps after this untl they tie some amazingly complex kernal blob which locks you with imei and a non LD overridable system call (or something like that).
On a different note charging $3 to americans but almost double that to brits (£3) is completely evil behaviour.
So who knows, give away your IMEI, somebody reports the N900 is stolen and you lose your N900 to whoever was smart enough to try it if the police decide to confiscate it from you. =P (Granted it may not work but you never know). Especially with the way the UK is heading.
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Originally Posted by ysss
They're maemo and MeeGo...
"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
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2010-01-13
, 07:30
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Posts: 68 |
Thanked: 621 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#87
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Originally Posted by damion
The reason for removing the package from the repository was not that somebody realized that the files can be copied. We know pirating Angry Birds needs pretty much no effort at all but we still made a deliberate choice to go forward with this game on N900 nevertheless.
I'm concerned that they quickly removed the .deb. surelythey realised this would happen? It can't be news to them. The deviced has no way to stop you copying files from the filesystem.
Personally I would just like to believe that the community has enough honest people who realizes that by saving the few dollars on a game you like you very effectively doom the platform from getting more professionally made games.
But there's still some threshold how easy piracy can be and having to write only three words to the terminal clearly exceeds it. That's why the package was removed.
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2010-01-13
, 08:47
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Posts: 516 |
Thanked: 643 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Denmark/Poland
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#88
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Originally Posted by Miika
That pretty much sums up this sad incident. I'm very curious what will be the real security they will put in place. I really cheer for paid (pro) applications for Maemo, so I hope it will be solid.
But there's still some threshold how easy piracy can be and having to write only three words to the terminal clearly exceeds it. That's why the package was removed.
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Hi! I'm a Maemo Greeter!
Witaj na talk.maemo.org!
Useful links for newcomers:
Użyteczne linki:
Nowi użyktownicy mówią cześć | New members say hello , Tu zaczynają nowi użytkownicy | New users start here, Podforum społeczności | Community subforum, Wiki dla początkujących | Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Często zadawane pytania | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Google
Jeżeli mogę w czymś pomóc, pytaj!
If I can help with anything else, just ask!
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Last edited by hopbeat; 2010-01-13 at 09:00.
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2010-01-13
, 08:56
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Posts: 755 |
Thanked: 406 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
@ UK
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#89
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Hi Miika
Any idea when the level pack will be back on?
I installed the pack yesterday, but since I can't see it in the Ovi store now, I can't pay for it.
I'll keep an eye out hoping it'll re-appear, or at least someone will point me to a 'Donate to Rovio' button.
I'm hopeful that when Nokia gets the Ovi store sorted out enough that Rovio will be comfortable making games for us, and releasing them at an equivalent price.
Any idea when the level pack will be back on?
I installed the pack yesterday, but since I can't see it in the Ovi store now, I can't pay for it.
I'll keep an eye out hoping it'll re-appear, or at least someone will point me to a 'Donate to Rovio' button.
Originally Posted by franny87
At this stage I'm happy paying three times the cost for the game on the iphone, and twice the cost for the game in America, mainly to demonstrate to Rovio that if you develop for this platform you will get a good return on investment.
The only thing that i would argue for is the price difference on the iPhone which is 1$ and for us is 3$. Heh still don't mind is a good push for Nokia i guess
I'm hopeful that when Nokia gets the Ovi store sorted out enough that Rovio will be comfortable making games for us, and releasing them at an equivalent price.
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2010-01-13
, 08:59
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Posts: 883 |
Thanked: 980 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Bern, Switzerland
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#90
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I suggest another solution: use the normal installation processes, but install the content in an encrypted way. On postinstall, run some decryption engine that verifies the purchase against the ovi store before unlocking the content. The browser could pass a Session/Purchase ID/MAC that is valid for a few minutes and the store could e.g. retain the IP of the buyer. Only if all data is valid when the unlock call comes shall the content be decrypted.
Easy and cheap to implement, a simple barrier. Not that secure, but needing some work to get hacked - but not economical anymore.
(One problem about the IMEI solution: SIMless devices :-)
Easy and cheap to implement, a simple barrier. Not that secure, but needing some work to get hacked - but not economical anymore.
(One problem about the IMEI solution: SIMless devices :-)
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-Tom (N900, N810, N800)
"the idea of truly having a computer in your pocket just moved a big step closer."
-Tom (N900, N810, N800)
"the idea of truly having a computer in your pocket just moved a big step closer."
DRM has never stopped anyone from pirating anything, not for long anyways. If the post-install script only pointed to some remote authentication procedure, then modifying it wouldn't help the user much. Especially if the remote procedure is encrypted some how.
Anyways, we could go back and forth all day, someone undoubtedly responding with "encryption algorithm would get spoofed" or the like. My original point was that there are ways of providing some degree of protection for proprietary developers.
I wonder how Penumbra and friends are solving this "dilemma"
aspidites | blog | aspidites@inbox.com