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2007-09-11
, 22:46
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Posts: 729 |
Thanked: 19 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#72
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Originally Posted by vaiodon
Agreed. (although web-based chat apps tend to piss me off more than built-in...but Pidgen kills 'em all dead when it comes to the N800)
It's not a case of what any of us think they are, it's what the manufacturers are marketing the devices as.
And so far Nokia has been screwing up big-time on the IT marketing front.
Hell, I'm still pissed with their Windows-only mindset, but they are trying to get Mac apps in there for their S60 devices though. No love for Linux either even though their Internet Tablet line is based on it.
But hey, now Apple's starting to feel the pressure as their entire iPod line now looks more segmented than ever, much like Nokia's product line looks now.
Originally Posted by vaiodon
Now THAT'S what Willis was talkin' 'bout!
I'll be honest, I'm a bit disappointed with my N800, it hasn't lived up to my expectations. Just about all the applications I really want it to do are flawed - no, hold on, the FM Radio's neat. However, I am prepared to hang in there and file the bug reports but Nokia should really step up to the mark to support the best of the community developments.
Nokia should actually be rewarding those of us who take the time to file bug reports and play around with their beta software as well as their buggy/clumsy tablet applications. Some of you out there are a hell of a lot more active in submitting bug reports than most and those should be singled out for praise by Nokia itself with a free phone and/or next-gen tablet. That starts word-of-mouth campaign that all the PR money in the world can't buy.
__________________
Kicking Nokia in the jimmy, one marketing exec at a time.
Kicking Nokia in the jimmy, one marketing exec at a time.
Originally Posted by Mr. T
Well maybe Mr. T hacked the game, and made a mowhawk class? And maybe Mr. T is pretty handy with computers? Had that occurred to you Mr. Condescending Director?
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2007-09-11
, 23:09
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#73
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I got some feedback on tablet marketing today, and although it wasn't *official*, I think it's a good indicator nonetheless of the corporate thinking.
I can't go into details, but suffice to say there was some logic to the motivation behind keeping the tablet hype low key (for now). But I get the feeling from the community that the prevailing fear is that lack of overt, large-scale marketing for the device equates to half-@$$ corporate support for the product line. That it's doomed to an nGage fate.
I have to confess I had the same fear for a while, but I've been given good reason to believe Nokia is in the tablet business for the long haul. What the company is hoping for is patience from the early adopters as certain elements are retooled.
So my optimism is rekindled a bit. BUT-- that doesn't mean there isn't room for immediate improvement. The good news is that lessons are being learned. That said, I don't think the tablets will be hyped in the exact same way as iPods and iPhones, and to a certain degree they shouldn't IMO. Nokia just needs to better define the target customer(s), get the message out, and follow through on promises quicker.
Last edited by Texrat; 2007-09-11 at 23:11.
I can't go into details, but suffice to say there was some logic to the motivation behind keeping the tablet hype low key (for now). But I get the feeling from the community that the prevailing fear is that lack of overt, large-scale marketing for the device equates to half-@$$ corporate support for the product line. That it's doomed to an nGage fate.
I have to confess I had the same fear for a while, but I've been given good reason to believe Nokia is in the tablet business for the long haul. What the company is hoping for is patience from the early adopters as certain elements are retooled.
So my optimism is rekindled a bit. BUT-- that doesn't mean there isn't room for immediate improvement. The good news is that lessons are being learned. That said, I don't think the tablets will be hyped in the exact same way as iPods and iPhones, and to a certain degree they shouldn't IMO. Nokia just needs to better define the target customer(s), get the message out, and follow through on promises quicker.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2007-09-11 at 23:11.
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2007-09-11
, 23:20
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#74
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Originally Posted by vaiodon
You're still making the mistake of focusing on the similarities instead of the distinct features. Nokia is not marketing the N800 in the same vein as Apple markets the iPods and iPhone; a simple feature list doesn't make your point for you. Purpose-driven advertising would though. Hell, for all practical purposes Nokia isn't marketing the N800 at all! And it boils down to the fact that the N800 is closer to laptop territory, the iPod is firmly in media player territory and the iPhone is, well, first and foremost a phone.
Oh please, just read the respective websites:
www.apple.com/ipodtouch:www.nokia.com/N800:
- Music, videos, photos and websites....
- Easy access to web
- Wi-fi connectivity
- Internet Calling with web camera
- Enjoy music and video
- Instant messaging & email
Ignoring the Internet calling, both lists amount to the same thing. IM & email are widely available as web apps so let's not split hairs on that point.
It's not a case of what any of us think they are, it's what the manufacturers are marketing the devices as.
I'll be honest, I'm a bit disappointed with my N800, it hasn't lived up to my expectations. Just about all the applications I really want it to do are flawed - no, hold on, the FM Radio's neat. However, I am prepared to hang in there and file the bug reports but Nokia should really step up to the mark to support the best of the community developments.
I don't know how to disabuse you or anyone else of the flawed approach above. Some seem committed to it. So be it. Oh, and no need to point me toward Nokia's websites, but thanks.
That said, there will come a time, and soon, when Nokia and Apple DO compete head to head in products and services. There will be no room to equivocate. Given Nokia's recent corporate redefinition, it's inevitable. But the tablets weren't the first salvo-- music-oriented phones and Ovi were.
And when the Nokia iPhone clone comes out next year, then I'll gladly cede the point.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2007-09-12
, 00:28
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#75
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Originally Posted by iball
I reckon the "Classic" iPods are living on borrowed time. Once Flash memory is available in larger capacities such as 64GB, which should be feasible within 12-24 months time, the mechanical hard drive iPods will be history. Apple had no choice but to maintain two iPod lines while it transitions from mechanical to solid state.
But hey, now Apple's starting to feel the pressure as their entire iPod line now looks more segmented than ever, much like Nokia's product line looks now.
Originally Posted by iball
To be fair to Nokia, they did just that. It wasn't just developers that received discounted N800s, but also those who have been active in Bugzilla filing and commenting on bugs.
Nokia should actually be rewarding those of us who take the time to file bug reports and play around with their beta software as well as their buggy/clumsy tablet applications. Some of you out there are a hell of a lot more active in submitting bug reports than most and those should be singled out for praise by Nokia itself with a free phone and/or next-gen tablet. That starts word-of-mouth campaign that all the PR money in the world can't buy.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-09-12 at 00:30.
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2007-09-12
, 00:33
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#76
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
I've seen analysts claim that Jobs wanted to kill the classic line outright but relented. I have no problem believing that. He wants to keep momentum moving toward each new paradigm shift and never look back.
I reckon the "Classic" iPods are living on borrowed time. Once Flash memory is available in larger capacities such as 64GB, which should be feasible within 12-24 months time, the mechanical hard drive iPods will be history. Apple had no choice but to maintain two iPod lines while it transitions from mechanical to solid
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2007-09-12
, 12:59
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Posts: 1,463 |
Thanked: 81 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ UK
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#77
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Originally Posted by Texrat
The realist (or cynic, delete as appropriate) says "yes, of course they're keeping it low so they don't get a massive consumer backlash".
I can't go into details, but suffice to say there was some logic to the motivation behind keeping the tablet hype low key (for now).
But I think that's unfair, TBH.
I still maintain that the N800 is competing for the same users as the iPod Touch; within the margins of statistical error. The number of SSH-wielding techies who don't want the full power of a laptop isn't that great.
You can call me stupid and that statements like this "blow your mind", but the N800 isn't a high-end business-focused PDA (obviously something the iPod Touch can't do), it's a portable Internet-accessing multimedia device. Banging on about differences is pointless.
Going on about openness makes you sound like RMS saying Linus Torvalds is foolish for thinking "open source" is more importatn than "free software". I care about openness, but the mythical Aunt Tilly doesn't.
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2007-09-12
, 14:13
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#78
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Originally Posted by aflegg
Ooo, I wish I could comment on statement #1.
The realist (or cynic, delete as appropriate) says "yes, of course they're keeping it low so they don't get a massive consumer backlash".
But I think that's unfair, TBH.
I still maintain that the N800 is competing for the same users as the iPod Touch; within the margins of statistical error. The number of SSH-wielding techies who don't want the full power of a laptop isn't that great.
You can call me stupid and that statements like this "blow your mind", but the N800 isn't a high-end business-focused PDA (obviously something the iPod Touch can't do), it's a portable Internet-accessing multimedia device. Banging on about differences is pointless.
Going on about openness makes you sound like RMS saying Linus Torvalds is foolish for thinking "open source" is more importatn than "free software". I care about openness, but the mythical Aunt Tilly doesn't.
I'm not going to call you stupid just for being mistaken, Andrew. That would be petty, and you're entitled to your perception. I think you just might be looking at the issue a little off-kilter and coming to the wrong conclusion. That's made evident to me in this statement: "it's a portable Internet-accessing multimedia device". IF the N800 could indeed be summed up in that simple remark, I'd agree with you 100%. But it can't, so I don't. It has a broader scope than that, a broader scope than the iPod Touch. The failure of a few people in this entanglement to grasp that is what's blowing my mind. Don't hone in on SSH alone to make your argument-- that's dangerously close to straw man erection.
There's more to the feature set and you know it.And I really don't get the last comment. Even if the rank and file consumers don't care about the importance of the openness, it STILL remains a critical distinguishing factor, the importance of which will only continue to grow and increasingly differentiate the Nokia tablets from "close" competitors like iPods and iPhones. "Banging on about differences" isn't pointless-- it's the only rational part of the discussion!
Bottom line, the devices do indeed share a multitiude of features. But that does not ipso facto mean they share majority of purpose. The few distinguishing features have more value, carry more weight, than the many common ones which consumers will naturally expect under this vast umbrella.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2007-09-12 at 19:49.
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2007-09-12
, 19:32
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Posts: 40 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#79
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My original post to this thread supported the comments by milhouse and aflegg but we all seem to be getting drawn into conflicting debate with texrat's firmly held opinions about where the IT is targetted and where it's going. His allusion to recent secret squirrel discussion that only he is party to will, I guess, have to be succour to the rest of us that we're not titanically, surfing our ITs toward a virtual iceberg.
I'm signing off, sometimes a lot of time listening is more fun than talking.
Must go see what this new, beta, veedeo app is gonna do for me and log some bugs! Wine, food and bed before the red eye to London await - I do so hate getting up in the middle of the night.
Note to self - don't look at the tech toys shop in the airport.
I'm signing off, sometimes a lot of time listening is more fun than talking.
Must go see what this new, beta, veedeo app is gonna do for me and log some bugs! Wine, food and bed before the red eye to London await - I do so hate getting up in the middle of the night.
Note to self - don't look at the tech toys shop in the airport.
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2007-09-12
, 19:36
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#80
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Sorry about that. I did admit that everyone has a right to their opinions.
And to be bluntly honest, understanding of the important distinctions between the N800 and Apple's devices doesn't rely on any "secret squirrel" discussions. I threw those in as non sequiters more or less.
EDIT: any way, I'll self-censor on the subject. I can't think of any new ways to say "YOU'RE WRONG!!!"
Last edited by Texrat; 2007-09-12 at 19:51.
And to be bluntly honest, understanding of the important distinctions between the N800 and Apple's devices doesn't rely on any "secret squirrel" discussions. I threw those in as non sequiters more or less.
EDIT: any way, I'll self-censor on the subject. I can't think of any new ways to say "YOU'RE WRONG!!!"
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2007-09-12 at 19:51.
www.apple.com/ipodtouch:
- Music, videos, photos and websites....
www.nokia.com/N800:Ignoring the Internet calling, both lists amount to the same thing. IM & email are widely available as web apps so let's not split hairs on that point.
It's not a case of what any of us think they are, it's what the manufacturers are marketing the devices as.
I'll be honest, I'm a bit disappointed with my N800, it hasn't lived up to my expectations. Just about all the applications I really want it to do are flawed - no, hold on, the FM Radio's neat. However, I am prepared to hang in there and file the bug reports but Nokia should really step up to the mark to support the best of the community developments.