Notices


Poll: How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB
Poll Options
How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB

Reply
Thread Tools
Posts: 162 | Thanked: 173 times | Joined on Mar 2013
#2481
If my calculation is right I will have (taking the VAT of Germany which is less than my country's VAT) :

990 + 130 = 1120 EUR
1120 x 1.19 = 1332.8 EUR

So a full neo900 with only VAT (that is calculated at a better rate than the one in my country) will be around 1340 EUR at which I should add the paypal conversion fee (if I pay by paypal) or Visa conversion fee (if I pay by credit card... don't really now which will be cheaper) and without any eventual additional cost.

In the poll I voted for 500 EUR without knowing what was really build and the really awesome think it could be (as described now), afterwards I was ready to pay 900 or 950 EUR for the full device, but sadly 1340 EUR is a bit too much for me.

I really like this project and want it to succeed and get a neo900 but I will not be able to gather that amount. I've already donated 100 EUR and hope it will help a little bit the neo900 to come true. I will continue to read all the forum posts and the news on the website hoping to see some day pictures of the beast.

Maybe if the final price really gets to drop below 1000 EUR and I can still get in, I could continue donating. Or maybe if a second batch will exist and the price will be under 1000 EUR (maybe more people will want to pre-order if they see that the project succeeded) then I could get this awesome "mobile computer with phone capabilities".
 

The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Malakai For This Useful Post:
wicket's Avatar
Posts: 486 | Thanked: 2,202 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Colombia
#2482
Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
If my calculation is right I will have (taking the VAT of Germany which is less than my country's VAT) :

990 + 130 = 1120 EUR
1120 x 1.19 = 1332.8 EUR

So a full neo900 with only VAT (that is calculated at a better rate than the one in my country) will be around 1340 EUR at which I should add the paypal conversion fee (if I pay by paypal) or Visa conversion fee (if I pay by credit card... don't really now which will be cheaper) and without any eventual additional cost.

In the poll I voted for 500 EUR without knowing what was really build and the really awesome think it could be (as described now), afterwards I was ready to pay 900 or 950 EUR for the full device, but sadly 1340 EUR is a bit too much for me.

I really like this project and want it to succeed and get a neo900 but I will not be able to gather that amount. I've already donated 100 EUR and hope it will help a little bit the neo900 to come true. I will continue to read all the forum posts and the news on the website hoping to see some day pictures of the beast.

Maybe if the final price really gets to drop below 1000 EUR and I can still get in, I could continue donating. Or maybe if a second batch will exist and the price will be under 1000 EUR (maybe more people will want to pre-order if they see that the project succeeded) then I could get this awesome "mobile computer with phone capabilities".
It pains me to see a post like this. You are absolutely right, it is out of the price range for many people. Many of us will have to break the bank to purchase a Neo900. It is much more than I had hoped to pay. I have already said I'll commit to purchasing the NeoN board only (I did want a full device) at €990 + VAT + shipping - preorder bonus, but to be honest I'm not loaded, I have to set myself a price limit somewhere and I think I've already reached it. What worries me is that there are people who have already put down €100 that are now dropping out. This is bad for all parties. I've not yet received my voucher but I'm not sure what I'll do with it given that the price could go up as more and more people drop out.

I do however believe that more people will jump on board once a fully working prototype has been demoed and I don't think that 1000 orders is out of the question. 1000 orders should bring the price down by at least €190 in R&D and loan interest distribution alone.

I'm torn here and I'm unsure about whether I should commit to the down payment. How long do you think it will be before you will be able to demo the final prototype? Is there a chance it will happen before you close the down payment window? To provide an incentive for more people to spread the word, could we perhaps get an estimate of what the cost would be should you manage to achieve 1000 orders?

Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
It *seems* our estimation calculation didn't even consider which of our expense items already has VAT included and thus would reduce the sales price before VAT accordingly. (don't hope for much from this though, there are very few expense items in the calculation where this *might* apply)
An updated estimate with these adjustments would be nice too, however small they may be.

Thanks again for your continued hard work!
__________________
DebiaN900 - Native Debian on the N900.

Mobile devices with mainline Linux support - Help needed with documentation.

"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer
 

The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to wicket For This Useful Post:
joerg_rw's Avatar
Posts: 2,179 | Thanked: 12,227 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#2483
...what I'll do with it given that the price could go up as more and more people drop out.
This never been an option. We won't build a 50 or 100 devices and hope for a 50 or 100 customers paying a fortune. The price calculation is meant to set an upper limit that only could fall for external factors like even more exchange rate decay. There's no business plan that counts on further increase of sales price, that would be insane and cannot work. I don't know where this idea came from.

On a sidenote we already have 6 customers going for the downpayment and some even for significant top up, from a 20 vouchers we sent out for first test batch. After just less than 3 days. During same timespan 3 new customers were all euphoric about the shop opening and giving them an opportunity to jump on the train. So rather you try to imagine how many new customers we could find on top of the best part of our existing customer base, once we finsih the stealth test phase of the shop and start spreading the word about Neo900 now has finalized (and good!) specs and is available on official legally binding preorder.
/j

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2015-05-14 at 17:39. Reason: typo
 

The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to joerg_rw For This Useful Post:
wicket's Avatar
Posts: 486 | Thanked: 2,202 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Colombia
#2484
That's great news (well at least to me). That idea came from my understanding that the price depends on the amount of devices built which in turn depends on the amount of preorders placed. I'm not sure if I was the only one thinking along those lines.

Now I know that it's an upper limit (give or take), you can expect my backing for a down payment shortly after I receive my voucher.

It'd still be nice to know how you're progressing with the next proto though. :P
__________________
DebiaN900 - Native Debian on the N900.

Mobile devices with mainline Linux support - Help needed with documentation.

"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer
 

The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to wicket For This Useful Post:
joerg_rw's Avatar
Posts: 2,179 | Thanked: 12,227 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#2485
As a little special feature to our german supporters, here a very useful answer to a contacts inquiry Werner gave:

Hallo XXXXX,

ja, zu 2/3 sprechen wir in der Tat deutsch ;-)

> Dass Ihr irgendwo auf der Website "longevity" schreibt, passt da ins
> Bild, ist aber - bei allem guten Willen - auch erstmal nur eine
> Werbeaussage.

Nun, die Langlebigkeit kommt in dem Fall weniger aus Materialien
oder der Fertigung (ein paar der uebleren Sollbruchstellen des
N900 sollten wir allerdings vermeiden koennen, und natuerlich
waehlen wir Komponenten mit vernuenftiger Lebensdauer), sondern
aus dem Entwicklungsprozess.

Weil das Design offen ist, haengt der Service fuer das Produkt
eben nicht nur von der dahinter stehenden Firma ab, sondern die
Community hat alle Mittel in der Hand, um fuer sich selbst zu
sorgen. Das kann beispielsweise das Know-How sein, um ein Problem
ueberhaupt zu verstehen, und um eine Loesung zu finden und zu
beschreiben. Und wenn ein Ersatzteil benoetigt wird, dann ist
genau bekannt, was da genau ersetzt werden muss, ohne Ratereien,
welchen Chip Apple denn hier nun wieder verbaut haben mag, und
ob's den ueberhaupt frei zu kaufen gibt.

Natuerlich sind viele Reparaturen nicht so einfach moeglich,
aber man kann sich mit diesen Informationen ja auch an einen
Reparaturdienst wenden, der den Neo900 zwar vielleicht noch nicht
kennt, sich aber so schnell ein Bild von der Lage zu verschaffen
vermag.

Oft ist das Problem aber nicht defekte Hardware, sondern schlicht
eine Inkompatibilitaet mit neuer Software. Auch hier ist das
Risiko beim Neo900 gering, da es mangels Marktdominanz keinen
Druck gibt, Bestandskunden zu einem Upgrade zu zwingen, wir auch
nicht versuchen, Konkurrenz durch aberwitzige Hardwarefeatures
abzuhaengen (was vor ein paar Jahren noch der Stolz eines jeden
Rechenzentrums gewesen waere, soll heute grad mal knapp reichen,
um zornige Voegel eingermassen ruckelfrei ueber den Bildschirm
zu schiessen ?), und weil bei Open Source ohnehin die Lebenszyklen
der Software nicht von den Launen des Managements des Herstellers
abhaengen, sondern ob sich wenigstens ein Entwickler findet, der
das Programm am Laufen haelt.

Der Schutz vor "planned obsolescence" ist also ziemlich optimal.

> Für mich wäre es ein wesentlicher Anstoß, mich fürs
> Zahlen zu entscheiden, wenn da so etwas stände wie "10 Jahre Garantie".

Das waere sinnvoll, wenn hinter Neo900 eine Grossfirma stuende.
Das Neo900 Projekt ist aber die Zusammenarbeit einer Reihe von
wirtschaftlich weitgehend unabhaengigen und auch geographisch
weit verteilten Leuten.

Bei der Neo900 UG waeren derlei Versprechen somit bestenfalls
angeberisch. Natuerlich werden wir uns bemuehen, Probleme zu
loesen, aber um eine Kontinuitaet ueber derartige Zeitraeume
versprechen zu koennen, waeren gewaltige Redundanzen noetig,
die schlicht nicht existieren.

Der Witz bei der offenen Entwicklung ist aber eben auch, wie oben
bereits geschildert, dass man als Kunde nicht mehr dem Hersteller
ausgeliefert ist.

> Ich sehe ein, dass das bei einem solchen Projekt aus mehreren Gründen
> nicht so einfach ist, aber es könnte sich lohnen darüber nachzudenken,
> wie man den potenziellen Käufern etwas Verbindliches in die Hand gibt,
> das ihnen die Wahrscheinlichkeit erhöht, diese nützliche Hardware auch
> über einen langen Zeitraum nutzen zu können

Eigentlich machen wir genau das :-) Nur ist es keine Garantie,
die vielleicht das (virtuelle) Papier nicht wert ist, auf dem sie
steht, sondern das Know-How, sich selbst helfen zu koennen, bzw.
leicht jemanden finden zu koennen, der helfen kann.

> Gibt es denn die
> Option, ein N900 einzuschicken und ein Neo900 zurückzubekommen,

Das koennen wir leider nicht machen. Die Idee mag zwar verlockend
klingen, aber die praktische Umsetzung waere ein Albtraum. Erstens
allein schon der Aufwand, um Geraete einzuschicken. Dann muessten
die gesaeubert, kontrolliert, usw. werden, und erst dann koennte
man mit dem Umbau beginnen. Und was waere, wenn wir am Schluss
einen Defekt bemerken, wessen Schuld waere das dann ?

Nein, da ist es viel einfacher und erspart allen viel Stress und
am Ende auch Geld, wenn wir guenstig ueberholte N900 kaufen, und
die verwerten. So ist der Prozess sauber definiert, wir wissen,
auf welche allfaellige Macken wir achten muessen, und bei Pannen
landet das defekte Geraet schlimmstenfalls im Muell, und wir
muessen keine Trauerbriefe schreiben.

Ich hoffe, das beantwortet die wichtigsten Punkte und hilft bei
der Entscheidungsfindung. Und natuerlich freuen wir uns ueber
jeden weiteren Kunden :-)

Schoene Gruesse aus Buenos Aires !
- Werner
Thank you Werner!
/j
 

The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to joerg_rw For This Useful Post:
Community Council | Posts: 1,770 | Thanked: 4,092 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ Germany
#2486
Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
On a sidenote we already have 6 customers going for the downpayment and some even for significant top up, from a 20 vouchers we sent out for first test batch. After just less than 3 days.
So where's my e-mail?
I'm waiting, and have the cash ready

Cheers.

Add. (20150516): got the e-mail. Thanks

Last edited by reinob; 2015-05-16 at 08:32.
 

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to reinob For This Useful Post:
joerg_rw's Avatar
Posts: 2,179 | Thanked: 12,227 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#2487
Originally Posted by reinob View Post
So where's my e-mail?
I'm waiting, and have the cash ready

Cheers.
You should have received the shop letter (http://neo900.org/shop-letter) email by now, and we've sent out a 20 voucher code mails so far (you seem to not be one of those 20) and are busy brushing out the last ugly warts from the shop, incl funny issues like geo-ip blocked some users, password sent plaintext in welcome mail, etc. Yesterday - among other stuff - we created a proper ToS, been "lorem ipsum" ;D Today we implement a 2 step account verification to protect the shop from spam accounts getting created.
Please stay tuned, we're working on it. Plans are to actually send out all voucher codes til end of this week
/j

[update: 7/20]

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2015-05-15 at 00:15.
 

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to joerg_rw For This Useful Post:
Posts: 71 | Thanked: 142 times | Joined on Oct 2012 @ France
#2488
When this project started and the poll price was launched, I voted for a price of 400€, because it was my maximal budget for a smartphone. When the price was stated to 700€, I told myself that if it's the price to privacy, I can make some effort and pay it (I had to find 300€ in one way or an other), but I didn't donate in case there is an other project of this kind less expensive.

However now the price is around 1120 €, without VAT. Just to keep this price in perspective, it's almost my salary. So the question to me is not anymore "will I buy a Neo900 ?" but "if I would like to buy a Neo900, will I be able to gather the money ?" and currently, and for the next two years, the answer is no.

Thank you for your project, but even if I'm interrested, it appears than I am not a part of the targeted customers. It seems they will be more likely an elite which is able to spend more than 1000€ in a smartphone.
I will continue to follow this project until the end of the order period, in case the price drop and I will still talk about it to people who could be potential customers, but I will more likely buy a Jolla phone which will cost "only" 250€ and keep my N900 as "travel" phone (because of the Jolla GSM frequencies).
 

The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to Astaoth For This Useful Post:
Posts: 3,192 | Thanked: 3,936 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Poland
#2489
Originally Posted by Astaoth View Post
When this project started and the poll price was launched, I voted for a price of 400€, because it was my maximal budget for a smartphone. When the price was stated to 700€, I told myself that if it's the price to privacy, I can make some effort and pay it (I had to find 300€ in one way or an other), but I didn't donate in case there is an other project of this kind less expensive.

However now the price is around 1120 €, without VAT. Just to keep this price in perspective, it's almost my salary. So the question to me is not anymore "will I buy a Neo900 ?" but "if I would like to buy a Neo900, will I be able to gather the money ?" and currently, and for the next two years, the answer is no.

Thank you for your project, but even if I'm interrested, it appears than I am not a part of the targeted customers. It seems they will be more likely an elite which is able to spend more than 1000€ in a smartphone.
I will continue to follow this project until the end of the order period, in case the price drop and I will still talk about it to people who could be potential customers, but I will more likely buy a Jolla phone which will cost "only" 250€ and keep my N900 as "travel" phone (because of the Jolla GSM frequencies).
Yeah, I'm so happy that I didn't sign up for a donation. Over 1000 EUR is far too much for me to spend on the Neo.

I hope that the next Neo will be feasible for an average customer. The current one is at the Apple price level, which very few of the people in the countries of Eastern Europe will be able to afford. It's more than the average salary (about 1000 EUR or even less). Most people earn About the half of it.
__________________
If you want to support my work, you can donate by PayPal or Flattr

Current projects:
N950: rewrite driver for BH1770 for the upstream kernel

Projects no longer actively developed: here
 

The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to marmistrz For This Useful Post:
jellyroll's Avatar
Posts: 403 | Thanked: 589 times | Joined on Apr 2012 @ Netherlands 020
#2490
€ 1200,- = Nexus5 + Jolla + N9 + N900
 

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to jellyroll For This Useful Post:
Reply

Tags
neo900, thank you!

Thread Tools

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:11.