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2013-08-29
, 18:18
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Posts: 804 |
Thanked: 1,598 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gdynia, Poland
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#192
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Wow, didn't know there is such issue with N900's keyboard, never really happened to me to press these key combinations at once :O Good to know you're aware of them and plan to improve. As well as with magned on the back cover, etc.
That's an easy supplement that just needs layout on PCB. We however will improve the kbd matrix slightly to avoid the N-key rollover problem described in http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard
Originally Posted by joerg_rw
I know, I'm still impressed how you found out about the improperly soldered battery for keeping system time on N900 while removing the main battery... On my device it never worked, from the very beginning in 2009.
Sure thing, things like these are a nobrainer, we will give great care to improve all those little annoyances. I'm famous for exactly such stuff. My title at Openmoko on my businesscard been "Hardware & Synergy"
Originally Posted by joerg_rw
I know it's a nobrainer, and I'm also puzzled about it missing in GTA04. Full IrDA would be another upgrade for N900 and I would be finally able to let my ancient N95 rest in peace.
Adding simple IRTX is a nobrainer (I'm puzzled about it missing in GTA04?) I think GTA04 already has option for IrDA aka IR-rx/tx. We will add sth like that to Neo900
Originally Posted by joerg_rw
My mistake, I forgot about the keyboard leds and counted the main blue/green/yellow/red charging/missed calls/etc led as one, thanks for correcting me.
actually not. GTA04 has 4 LED units, while N900 has 3 units in the 3-color indicator LED plus 6 LEDs to illuminate kbd. (plus the IR-TX LED, see above). we'll adapt that to be on par with N900, so you don't miss any functionality in Neo900.
Originally Posted by joerg_rw
I wrote "quite" as I didn't really investigate that issue and just saw there are some manuals and schematics
one of the key features. Why "quite"? If anything isn't as open as it should be, please holler. This (GTA04) project is based on OPENmoko and called OPENphoenux. We take pride in being as open as we can reasonably be, we even select our chips according to their openness, which is sth not that many customers really grok instantly incl all the implications. Back when, we had a hard time accepting the glamo chip's NDAed manuals and gone that route only because there simply was no open GPU available. Same goes for GPU of TI-OMAP. But the device works without using the closed blob 3D-accel libs, so we can ignore our pain in the belly.
I don't think so, but we are inmidst the evaluation process right now. One problem is camera, the GTA04 has only a "crappy" 1.xMP cam. We might not be able to source equivalent to what Nokia used in N900, particularly when it shall be open. We need to see if we can get original N900 cam modules. I guess they must fit into the circuit since they did on N900 ;-)
I believe it is as open as possible, the "quite" was added only as a precaution in case it would appear somehow closed. And I don't have anything valuable to add to that case either.Having an open camera would be nice, but having a good quality camera would also be good. Remember we have two cameras in our N900s in fact, so there could be place for both (and the quality of that "crappy" one would be uncomparably better than the one we have now, I'm sure)
When you say "open", you mean that not only drivers, but also the schematics are open, right?
Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Now there's a lot of notes
Well, look at this very thread ;-)
I'm gonna edit my previous post with information about two cameras in N900 and remove the word "quite" from "quite open manual with schematics" as now I saw them and can say that for my standards they are indeed very open. Thank you for your time to respond
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2013-08-29
, 18:50
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Posts: 986 |
Thanked: 1,526 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#193
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i would like to uselessly register my ecstatic enthusiasm for this project, and give my solemn vow to give you as much money as i can swing the instant you start asking for it. unfortunately, this will probably be in the 600 euro range, unless a mysterious estranged billionaire uncle passes and leaves me his entire fortune.
__________________
~ teleshoes ~
~ teleshoes ~
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2013-08-29
, 19:38
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Posts: 131 |
Thanked: 184 times |
Joined on Dec 2011
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#194
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Originally Posted by 48GX
I'd have to disagree. The N900 case is good, but if better cases are more available and could have:
n900 case is perfect.
1. 4 row bezel-less keyboard.
2. CBD-type anti-reflect display
3. Higher capacity, cheap batteries.
... then use the better cases.
I feel the need to point out that the demand for this is enthusiast-only and probably short-term (someone will come out with a HW kb Jolla/Nemo phone sooner or later).
Is there much point adding things that will never be supported? You need to first establish a price point. This involves anticipating demand because obviously you need to be sure of selling 200+. Looking at poll, aim for 300 Euros or lower...
Then fix the feature set and don't be tempted to mess with it too much later. Then start taking pre-orders a la Kickstarter.
More sophisticated devices could be built later once you've established a track record of actually getting a phone out. No disrespect but let's face it: it's so epic, it's hard to believe.
Last edited by _David_; 2013-08-29 at 19:54.
| The Following User Says Thank You to _David_ For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-08-29
, 20:38
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Posts: 93 |
Thanked: 172 times |
Joined on Jun 2011
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#195
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Originally Posted by _David_
When I said n900 case is perfect I was focusing my opinion in the fact that dos1 and joerg refer that project to a new PCB..
I'd have to disagree. The N900 case is good, but if better cases are more available and could have:
1. 4 row bezel-less keyboard.
2. CBD-type anti-reflect display
3. Higher capacity, cheap batteries.
... then use the better cases.
I feel the need to point out that the demand for this is enthusiast-only and probably short-term (someone will come out with a HW kb Jolla/Nemo phone sooner or later).
Is there much point adding things that will never be supported? You need to first establish a price point. This involves anticipating demand because obviously you need to be sure of selling 200+. Looking at poll, aim for 300 Euros or lower...
Then fix the feature set and don't be tempted to mess with it too much later. Then start taking pre-orders a la Kickstarter.
More sophisticated devices could be built later once you've established a track record of actually getting a phone out. No disrespect but let's face it: it's so epic, it's hard to believe.
talking about creating a new case is a lose of time in my opinion and the creation of a new device.
who wants to invest in a new case?
new case means no more n900.
talking about the PCB would it be possible to change the speakers connectors? so we would be able to put bigger ones like the n95 , e90, bb9900.
that change doesn't require case mod's.
regards
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2013-08-29
, 21:56
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#196
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Originally Posted by _David_
You're aware of what I wrote in post#1? GolDeliCo/Nikolaus: 100+ GTA04 devices sold and running. And I contributed to building n*10^4 GTA02 aka Openmoko Neo Freerunner (please don't start a discussion about that device, I'm aware of all the bugs I got hired to iron out and actualy achieved to do so the very moment when production got stopped)
More sophisticated devices could be built later once you've established a track record of actually getting a phone out. No disrespect but let's face it: it's so epic, it's hard to believe.
/j
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
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2013-08-29
, 22:05
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#197
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Originally Posted by 48GX
Please elaborate! I haven't looked into that speaker subject yet, so need pointers and/or data from you do be able to evaluate and consider.
[...]talking about the PCB would it be possible to change the speakers connectors? so we would be able to put bigger ones like the n95 , e90, bb9900.
that change doesn't require case mod's.
regards
Thanks
jOERG
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
| The Following User Says Thank You to joerg_rw For This Useful Post: | ||
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2013-08-29
, 22:19
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Posts: 93 |
Thanked: 172 times |
Joined on Jun 2011
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#198
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
here you have it:
Please elaborate! I haven't looked into that speaker subject yet, so need pointers and/or data from you do be able to evaluate and consider.
Thanks
jOERG
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83638
if you and others find it interesting I can do more tests and give feedback.
regards
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2013-08-29
, 23:04
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#199
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Originally Posted by 48GX
Checked that thread and what's got reported there, only serious post been by Dr.Frost who seems to know a bit about how audio actually works, i hear keywords like enclosure tuning, etc. I don't think we can do much on PCB to support an undefined mod that might get invented eventually. Maximum I could do is keep the PCB area clean around the speakers so no components are in the way when you replace your speakers.
here you have it:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83638
if you and others find it interesting I can do more tests and give feedback.
regards
A few further notes: speaker electrical impedance and power has to match the amp, speaker acoustic impedance and resonance frequency has to match the impedance transfromation and tuning of the enclosure(s, both front and rear of speaker).
And last not least: a speaker running into clipping (either in amp or in speaker coil) always sounds much louder than a speaker with higher power rating that doesn't clip at same signal. Alas clipping also means: it will sound to make your ears bleed.
anyway thanks for the pointer, I'll keep it on my long range radar. :-)
/j
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
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2013-08-30
, 06:03
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Posts: 3,074 |
Thanked: 12,960 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ Sofia,Bulgaria
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#200
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Hmm, what about building a better speaker protection(even a simple RCL filter might do it if calculated correctly IMO), so we can (hopefully) remove at least one of the Nokia closed blobs - PA(speex?) plugin that protects the speakers. Take that "removal" with a grain of salt - I didn't checked if it is a standalone module.
Checked that thread and what's got reported there, only serious post been by Dr.Frost who seems to know a bit about how audio actually works, i hear keywords like enclosure tuning, etc. I don't think we can do much on PCB to support an undefined mod that might get invented eventually. Maximum I could do is keep the PCB area clean around the speakers so no components are in the way when you replace your speakers.
A few further notes: speaker electrical impedance and power has to match the amp, speaker acoustic impedance and resonance frequency has to match the impedance transfromation and tuning of the enclosure(s, both front and rear of speaker).
And last not least: a speaker running into clipping (either in amp or in speaker coil) always sounds much louder than a speaker with higher power rating that doesn't clip at same signal. Alas clipping also means: it will sound to make your ears bleed.
anyway thanks for the pointer, I'll keep it on my long range radar. :-)
/j
__________________
Never fear. I is here.
720p video support on N900,SmartReflex on N900,Keyboard and mouse support on N900
Nothing is impossible - Stable thumb2 on n900
Community SSU developer
kernel-power developer and maintainer
Never fear. I is here.
720p video support on N900,SmartReflex on N900,Keyboard and mouse support on N900
Nothing is impossible - Stable thumb2 on n900
Community SSU developer
kernel-power developer and maintainer
Thanks for your very helpful post
cheers
jOERG
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-08-29 at 18:17.